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"security theater"
While this part of your post is true, Bush actually IS doing something about terrorism along with the "security theater" of this ID change. Of course some will say that his actions are wrong, but it is a bold decisive action to fight terrorists.

If you want to see theater without additional effective action, I refer you to the Clinton 1996 FAA security directive 96-05. This came about mainly as "theater", so that he could show the families of those killed and injured in 1993 in the WTC, that he was "feeling their pain".

Now, to show how unbiased I am , There was a "Gore sponsored" proposal for increased security at home that was slow to get attention. I haven't read it all, and I don't know how effective it would've been, but it was all I could think of to show how fair and balanced my post is.

I think your being extreme to say that in reality it makes us no safer. This, as with previous measures, DOES help somewhat; to what degree is of course debatable (obviously).

and sets us up for some horrific security and privacy issues.

That is also a good point, but that is the dilemma, it has ALWAYS been punch, counter punch, between security and bad guys, no matter what the methods taken. We have to try to balance rights and security, and it's always too much for some, and not enough for others. But our society demands SOMETHING be done, (even if it seems to be just "theater"), and at the same time it screams DON'T TRAMPLE OUR RIGHTS! That is indeed very difficult, if not impossible, for all but the ONE MAN that will appear to have all of the solutions....for the whole world.

Which brings us back to "what to do". I believe that we can only DELAY the inevitable tracking (marking) of all humans on earth, in our country specifically, temporarily. I also believe that the best way to be the most secure possible in our country, is to go after and eliminate our enemies. By that I mean, go to Afghanistan, Iraq or ANYWHERE else on earth and kill or capture those who NO DOUBT want to kill us, before they come here. If we are effective in doing this, it will be awhile before this subject of ID comes up again. Again, very difficult to please everyone.

Going after our enemies is exactly what Bush is doing, despite what the Spicolis and other naysayers would have us believe. And no need for the debate on who WE believe are the real enemies, I believe we are on the right track, I believe our military and intelligence know far more, and are DOING far more, than most people know, and that is almost always a fruitless debate.

I will now don my asbestos suit. happy
Posted by: Spoon Jabber   Posted on: 02/14/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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Hi Ya  ParadigmOdyssey | 02/14/05
Blinker Laws  ParadigmOdyssey | 02/14/05
This will supplement what is already there...  htotten | 02/14/05
Truer words have never been spoken  Roger Ramjet | 02/14/05
Re: SSN Not to be used for identification  rwilson@... | 05/11/05
Ya gotta laugh  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
I think it's only fair people get the fascism they voted for.  Atlant | 02/15/05
Would this be better than what we have today?  jwschull@... | 02/14/05
Just another step on the slippery slope.  Laff | 02/14/05
"Your papers, please ..."  Judas I. | 02/14/05
Time for a tin foil wallet.  Squawkbox | 02/14/05
Our government is becoming the worst terrorist  bjbrock | 02/14/05
I support this 100%  toomuchgreeatea@... | 02/14/05
Database access  tic swayback | 02/14/05
my direct marketing campaign  Squawkbox | 02/14/05
my direct marketing campaign  Squawkbox | 02/14/05
My friend, you just summarized the problem well...  BitTwiddler | 02/14/05
Privacy concerns aside, what good will this do?  tic swayback | 02/14/05
Stop using your head and just accept what you are told!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/14/05
Truly the modern day Republican motto  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
Motives  tic swayback | 02/14/05
wrong Tic  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
I'm trying to be charitable  tic swayback | 02/14/05
I agree Tic that at least to start not everyone  Laff | 02/14/05
The law of unintended consequences  tic swayback | 02/14/05
So your saying...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/14/05
"security theater"  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Actually I do not demand that anything be done.  Laff | 02/14/05
YOU have that choice  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
I only hope that I can continue to have that choice.  Laff | 02/14/05
Those who believe in a Heaven and a Hell should know  Laff | 02/14/05
Yeah  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
Oh, sorry Jeff, "I forgot you were there".  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Actually if I get the right sense of Jeff and he has a  Laff | 02/14/05
Thank you Jimbo!  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
If you'd seen the movie  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Yes I did see the movie...Billy Bob Thorton was it not?  Laff | 02/14/05
I can't recall the ahem actor's name but he's the annoying  Laff | 02/14/05
Steven Segal?  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
You are correct about the girls!!!  Laff | 02/14/05
Please explain how this helps  tic swayback | 02/15/05
Explanation  Spoon Jabber | 02/15/05
(}:-)  osreinstall | 02/14/05
No discussion needed, just one simple answer is all  tic swayback | 02/14/05
Forgot about tone of voice  osreinstall | 02/14/05
I knew you were being sarcastic...  tic swayback | 02/14/05
Wait a minute, this is my country.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/14/05
Yer right, Axey!  Judas I. | 02/14/05
YES you are!!!  Laff | 02/14/05
Almost right...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/14/05
heh heh heh...I love you AX!!!  Laff | 02/14/05
Wow!  Linux User 147560 | 02/14/05
10.0....I Can't Believe I'm 100% Behind You On This One  itanalyst | 02/14/05
Problem is we are the minority  Linux User 147560 | 02/14/05
Even sheep reble at some point...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/15/05
Too late, it's the government's country now  Ronny102 | 02/14/05
Mainstream Media Still Asleep At The Wheel (NT)  Pinkerton | 02/14/05
No they know exactly what they are doing.  Laff | 02/14/05
the mainstream media is not...  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
No laughing matter  bob@... | 02/14/05
Best thing ever  hheite@... | 02/14/05
Iraq war a total failure  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
The jury is not in ...  ShadeTree | 02/14/05
Think he's missing the democracy point  voska | 02/14/05
Ummm Voska  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
But as long as IRAQ is occupied  voska | 02/14/05
But doesn't that go against the spirit of democracy?  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
How could that happen?  rapson | 02/14/05
What I believe..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
Good questions Carl...but my answer to them is  Laff | 02/14/05
Numbers  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
A very distant third and forth. What will be interesting  Laff | 02/14/05
I wonder how many...  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Now that "IS" funny....:)  Laff | 02/14/05
I'll tell you..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
LOL! Jeff  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
No logical REASON to NOT have a follow up paper trail  Laff | 02/14/05
Laff, did I misunderstand?  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Hey Laff  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
Apparently I DID misunderstand.  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Sorry Spoon I thought Jeff was going back to Ohio  Laff | 02/14/05
Poor Carl  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
I sort of like a good spanking.....:)  Laff | 02/14/05
Yeah  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
What I find interesting  rapson | 02/15/05
Yup  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
So when will that happen for you?  Spoon Jabber | 02/15/05
OK..I will try to answer you point for point  Laff | 02/15/05
You missed alot!  Spoon Jabber | 02/15/05
And since this is the case (I trust you) then I  Laff | 02/15/05
Counterpoints  rapson | 02/15/05
Ah but.....  Laff | 02/15/05
what you find interesting...  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
Tracking your every move.  gordon@... | 02/14/05
Well with the Patriot Act and  Laff | 02/14/05
I don't think this is a fair characterization  tic swayback | 02/14/05
Can I get an AMEN for brother Tic!?!  Laff | 02/14/05
Fair enough.  gordon@... | 02/14/05
Homeland/Fartherland Security Dept is big  Laff | 02/14/05
More than just war spending  tic swayback | 02/14/05
well...  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
Deine Papiere Bitte.....  itanalyst | 02/14/05
Two points. First and perhaps most  Laff | 02/14/05
dont  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
This IS a national ID  BitTwiddler | 02/14/05
Actually the Congress is where the laws are ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
no to george the first  AnOldItGuy | 02/14/05
How is it... Why is it...  kastro | 02/14/05
You might find this interesting but many of our  Laff | 02/14/05
uh...  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
Very simple answer: mass media  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
No mention on CNN  gordon@... | 02/14/05
The mass media can be used in one of two  Laff | 02/14/05
Don't you see?  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
actually...  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
Darn it!  Spoon Jabber | 02/14/05
Really  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Yeah and we all know that they follow those  Laff | 02/15/05
Yeah?  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Thank you Jimbo  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
RE: Jeff and Jim  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Shade the good criminals are the one we  Laff | 02/15/05
Ummm Shadey..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Rather's producer was fired and ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
my opinion on the matter...  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
well  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
Do a majority of Americans want this?  tic swayback | 02/14/05
Based on other issues...  kastro | 02/14/05
Based on other things...  tic swayback | 02/14/05
The fact they SNEAK it in should tell you something.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/14/05
Even a line item veto must be used by a wise  Laff | 02/14/05
Exactly Axey  Jeff Spicoli | 02/14/05
Line item veto won't help...  Michael Kelly | 02/14/05
Obviously  Linux User 147560 | 02/14/05
Where are we going with HR 418?  osreinstall | 02/14/05
How did they sneak anything in?  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Hey Jeffreeeeeee  Squawkbox | 02/14/05
It's just a cover story..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
NORAD was created to prevent ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Yes and their jets would be useless against  Laff | 02/15/05
Precisely Jim  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
OK bright guy what do you think bringing down a jet ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Not to mention...  rapson | 02/15/05
Apparently..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Great arguement!  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Well Carl..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Ironic  voska | 02/15/05
Voska...  rapson | 02/15/05
The carriers survived Pearl Harbor ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Yeah, real "unanticipated" there Shadey!  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Come On Jeff ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Carl I would hope that Bush would have shot down  Laff | 02/15/05
Obviously they could have easily...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Sorry Shadey, few things you're missing..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Assumes facts not in evidence.  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Furthermore.  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Sure he can Shade!  Spoon Jabber | 02/15/05
Squawk, two problems with that  Spoon Jabber | 02/15/05
Ummm Spoon  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
No, actually you just made up some ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Well..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
I believe the 911 comission did hold the FBI ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Solutions to the problem...  Laff | 02/15/05
Good suggestions, Laff (NT)  rapson | 02/15/05
RE: Laff  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Shade the list of so called experts and profffesionals  Laff | 02/15/05
I believe that the pro's are in a better position to ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Most so called professionals...  voska | 02/15/05
You're aboslutely right Voska.  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
There has been a long history where the pro's and experts  Laff | 02/15/05
You are correct Shade..based on 9/11 the original  Laff | 02/15/05
RE: Laff, part of the problem here...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Which is exactly what my plan addresses  Laff | 02/15/05
Some good questions for you Jim..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Laff, your plan has a hole big enough to drive an ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Then YOU wear the leash like some sorry animal, Shadey..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Some better questions for you Jeff  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Hey Jeff  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Shade you made my point for me...they would  Laff | 02/15/05
It would be much easier if the person...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
While my plan is not as of yet perfect....still  Laff | 02/15/05
Once we have their DNA, their photo, their nationality  Laff | 02/15/05
Do any of you know how to make a EMP generator?  osreinstall | 02/15/05
RE: EMP generator?  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
about fbi cia and stuff..  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
What's It Matter Anyway Squawk?  itanalyst | 02/15/05
True, True  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
there is always...  jdahs@... | 02/15/05
Well seeing that I started this mess  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
Excellent wrapup (NT)  rapson | 02/15/05
100% agree..I have often called both republicans  Laff | 02/15/05
If you think a national ID is scary ...  ShadeTree | 02/15/05
Choice point is smothered in Powerpoint  osreinstall | 02/15/05
Too much!!!  lojak | 05/11/05
National ID Cards  msricky13 | 05/11/05
National IDs,, BIG WAHOO ABOUT NOTHING  justputt2@... | 05/11/05
making it hard on poeple born aboard  momzgoingnuts | 05/13/05
ID cards....  kalypso_z | 05/18/05
The Real ID Act  th3_br33z3 | 10/13/05
The Real ID Act:: National ID's  th3_br33z3 | 10/13/05
Devil at work  si_si_05 | 03/16/06
national ID cards  vampred61 | 02/20/06
Work of the DEVIL  si_si_05 | 03/16/06
Mark of the beast  si_si_05 | 03/16/06
Kingdom of God is at hand  si_si_05 | 03/16/06
Kingdom of God is at hand  si_si_05 | 03/16/06

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