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Take me at my word...: I KNOW what I'm saying, because I wrote it. Don't start down the conspiracy theory path. Like I've said in the past, you're fun to talk to when you stay on the road.

To reiterate, open source CAN innovate. My point is that proprietary software creates a better environment for innovation that matters to end users. It's like trying to guess what people in France might like as a breakfast food while living in Ohio, or going to Paris for a year and making your product plans based on that. The guy in Ohio MIGHT stumble across the perfect product, but I think the guy who lived in Paris would have a better chance of it.; Posted by: John Carroll Posted on: 05/10/04 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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I don't agree entirely voska | 05/10/04

True rapson | 05/10/04

Partial agreement John Carroll

| 05/10/04

The idea that people are creative only if they are paid is FALSE! DonnieBoy | 05/10/04

And if I was saying that, you'd be right... John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Let's see, the guys at JBoss don't have financial incentive? MySQL? DonnieBoy | 05/10/04

Couple points John Carroll

| 05/10/04

JBoss MUST inovate as well, they just have a different cost structure. DonnieBoy | 05/11/04

Another thing, you really were saying that. DonnieBoy | 05/10/04

Take me at my word... John Carroll

| 05/10/04

It's all about inertia - closed source/proprietary has more oldskool | 05/10/04

Again, your arguments do not hold water. DonnieBoy | 05/11/04

Office not generic? Fred Fredrickson | 05/11/04

Doesn't it go without saying? betelgeuse68 | 05/10/04

In the main, I agree IT_User | 05/10/04

A few missed points... Tim Patterson | 05/10/04

Not akin to extortion rapson | 05/10/04

Unfortunately, it feels like it... Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

Upgrade Treadmills, etc. John Carroll

| 05/10/04

John, MS formats DO force upgrades. DonnieBoy | 05/11/04

Not for platforms and protocols Eggs Ackley_z | 05/10/04

If it can be sold, it should be proprietary Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

True to a point Mack DaNife | 05/10/04

How much does software have to do? Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

That's not the consumers job voska | 05/10/04

There are no tools to work with proprietary software? Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Not sure what you mean voska | 05/10/04

What he's saying? rapson | 05/10/04

Exactly; thanks. (NT) Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Ahh.. I see voska | 05/10/04

Agreed, no incentive to switch IT_User | 05/10/04

Sorry I wasn't clear Mack DaNife | 05/10/04

I did the same IT_User | 05/10/04

Hmmm.. Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

I can accept that as an answer. Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Funny... Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

On the other hand... John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Money.. Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

Fishing with dynamite Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Assumptions Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

Protections no, but not doing harm, yes. Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Anton, We will have to agree to disagree Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

A reason I used GPL voska | 05/10/04

Re: Fishing? John L. Ries | 05/10/04

Idealism hurts Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Trade Union Mentality John L. Ries | 05/10/04

Dumping on professionals Anton Philidor | 05/11/04

Dumping John L. Ries | 05/11/04

Yes, Money... John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Assumptions, again Patrick Jones | 05/10/04

Regarding candidates for open source John Carroll

| 05/10/04

We do charge for our work, John Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

And... John Carroll

| 05/10/04

What motivates open source developers voska | 05/10/04

Lenin John L. Ries | 05/10/04

Re: Lenin John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Re: Lenin John L. Ries | 05/10/04

Developers interests are their employers' interests j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

Good Examples John Carroll

| 05/10/04

JC: You're off on that j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

Point is well taken John L. Ries | 05/10/04

right comparison, wrong model Spam-ZD | 05/11/04

Re: On the other hand... Martin Marvinski | 05/12/04

Comapnies shold not be allowed to do their own vehicle maintenance j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

How's that for making typos? NT j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

I nveer mispelll antyhing John Carroll

| 05/10/04

UPS j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

Not a zero-sum game IT_User | 05/10/04

Yes, IBM is a bigger danger. Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Untested theories IT_User | 05/10/04

but... eldrave | 05/10/04

Persistence Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

Ignoring users needs and giving them "gadgets" instead j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

Which users have you been observing? Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Interesting John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Keep in mind though.. Mack DaNife | 05/10/04

That's the hybrid model John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Okay, but you assume an answer here. Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Wrong Anton... Tim Patterson | 05/10/04

Pure service vs. consultant model Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

You left out JBOSS group from your analysis of anti-service oldskool | 05/10/04

Unfortunately, Free is relative agramont@... | 05/10/04

Maybe not... John L. Ries | 05/10/04

Keep trying, Anton Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

Disagree in part... wploger | 05/10/04

Yes, they can develop for open source... Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Job security Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

Volunteer replacements are acceptable? Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

anton sings the same old song. Spam-ZD | 05/11/04

There's logic. Anton Philidor | 05/11/04

Here is what troubles me IT_User | 05/11/04

Different models Anton Philidor | 05/11/04

Our agreement/disagreement is by degree as well. Mack DaNife | 05/10/04

Ummm, a title John Carroll

| 05/10/04

To be clear Mack DaNife | 05/10/04

My two cents... wploger | 05/10/04

Who cares if people lose jobs? LinuxLover74 | 05/10/04

Not in somebody's basement Anton Philidor | 05/10/04

Copyright and patent duration play into it. No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/10/04

Wow, someplace we can agree! DonnieBoy | 05/10/04

The idea of Patents is sound voska | 05/10/04

There are other patents that are bogus besides software. DonnieBoy | 05/10/04

You want to talk about EVILS in the patent system... Laff | 05/11/04

Bravo! Bravo! Excellent Writing! (NT) P. Douglas | 05/10/04

Basic versus Applied Science tic swayback | 05/10/04

Some comments John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Risk aversion tic swayback | 05/10/04

Re: Risk Aversion John Carroll

| 05/10/04

Which is why we need more than companies tic swayback | 05/11/04

I agree John Carroll

| 05/11/04

Fallacies, part One Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

Intuit is example why OS exists voska | 05/10/04

So true. Rick_K | 05/10/04

Response, Part 1 John Carroll

| 05/11/04

Upgrade Cycles John L. Ries | 05/13/04

Fallacies, part Two Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

You should know better..... Rick_K | 05/10/04

Better than what? Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

Users just wanted stability Users just wanted stability j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

This is Wierd j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

ZD Innovation Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

...and yet... John Carroll

| 05/10/04

You're getting defensive of MS j.m.galvin | 05/10/04

The other side of my personality John Carroll

| 05/11/04

A slight correction on Mac stability & one other thing j.m.galvin | 05/11/04

AT&T John Carroll

| 05/12/04

Concerning "hype", "geeks", and "Great Satans" _Akira | 05/12/04

All true...but so what? Cayble | 01/20/06

Oh puh-leeze! Robert Crocker | 05/11/04

Oh leeze-puh John Carroll

| 05/11/04

puh Oh -leeze Robert Crocker | 05/11/04

Response, Part 2 John Carroll

| 05/11/04

Fallacies, part Three Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/10/04

Response, Part 3 John Carroll

| 05/11/04

That is LUDICROUS j.m.galvin | 05/11/04

Excellent response, but ya missed 2 points Fred Fredrickson | 05/12/04

Tree, Forest John Carroll

| 05/12/04

This one confuses me IT_User | 05/11/04

Standards Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/11/04

Economic Rationalism versus Social Benefit Fred Fredrickson | 05/10/04

The problem John Carroll

| 05/11/04

Only one of everything? rapson | 05/11/04

Actually, That's what J. Carroll is espousing j.m.galvin | 05/11/04

And what I am expecting IT_User | 05/11/04

I hope not j.m.galvin | 05/11/04

Highlander Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/11/04

No, that's not it. Fred Fredrickson | 05/12/04

No, it's the solution Fred Fredrickson | 05/12/04

Re: The Problem John L. Ries | 05/13/04

Proprietary software closer to the customers? NemesisNL | 05/10/04

The argument intentionally confuses roles ... baffle 'em with BS! oldskool | 05/10/04

Lets see V Sanders | 05/10/04

Or.... Robert Crocker | 05/11/04

TiVo Anton Philidor | 05/11/04

Tivo's reason to use Linux mr.pragmatic | 05/12/04

Caroll's statements prove closed source at disadvantage ... oldskool | 05/10/04

oops ... tail end was cut & past from article ... but its more fodder oldskool | 05/10/04

Software Is Limited ParadigmOdyssey | 05/10/04

BE-YOU-TEE-FULLLL!!! Robert Crocker | 05/11/04

answer toadlife | 05/11/04

DARPA funded Robert Crocker | 05/13/04

Christmas Carrol pj-xmesh | 05/11/04

So you admit you don't know, but write 4 installments anyway oldskool | 05/11/04

Hats off to J.M Galvin jellyclock | 05/12/04

The MONEY issue mr.pragmatic | 05/12/04

SCO Anger MrStanaland | 05/12/04

Re: SCO Anger mr.pragmatic | 05/12/04

P-Shop'n Gimp ? pj-xmesh | 05/13/04

Companies are best positioned to figure out what customers actually want. MrStanaland | 05/12/04

some objections VSim | 08/06/04

What do you think?

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