On BNET: Online porn struggles for profits
BNET Business Network:
BNET
TechRepublic
ZDNet
TalkBack 31 of 250:
Next »
« Previous
No magic to it
But don't answer "than what". Who if not government? I presume you think business is responsible for guiding the economy?

The claim you made was that I was advocating "no regulation." I responded by explaining the difference between setting up a framework for markets and making decisions about the outcomes. So, in answer to your question, the people who make decisions about the outcome are consumers / sellers, a.k.a. free actors in a free market economy.

What business has at its heart the good of the economy?

That's the point. Markets don't rely about businesses altruistically thinking about the market economy. They worry about their OWN interests, and the markets checks and balances keeps them under control. That's a principle that has been well known since Adam Smith.

Yes, quite right. And by putting Windows Media Player on every desktop, and the server on every server, then offering inducements to content publishers to stream only in WMF
(e.g. baseball league) then users are forced into using WMP.


THey're not forced to. They might choose to if people decide the products have what they want. Remember, Media Player's popularity is a new phenomenon after years of the media player product looking like a poor cousin to the more advanced products.

Likewise, the media player format can be run as easily in RealPlayer (media player formats exist as DirectShow filters), and conversely, RealPlayer formats could be played in Media Player provided Real made the encoders available through DirectShow. Very open.

Real might not get their format pre-installed by default, though note that Windows is one of the few OSes (besides Linux) where companies could pay OEMs to preinstall their own products on every PC shipped. Microsoft gets to include its own products, but they spend billions BUILDING those products. RealPlayer just has to use that money to convince OEMs to preinstall their wares.

You also totally discount Microsoft's market power driven by Windows. You're in denial.

I don't discount their market power. I just question whether a) it is the threat people make it out to be, and b) that it can't be overcome by natural market forces.

Just because it happens does not make it right. A natural outcome of anarchy is survival of the fittest. So is anarchy

You seem eager to pigeonhole me as an economic anarchist. If you want that, look to Eric Raymond, not me. I've promoted Hernando de Soto's model of economic success, which presumes governments are there to lay a strong framework for economic activity.

It IS right, however, if billions of consumers in the aggregate decide that the RIGHT solution for them is a unified desktop operating system that offers lower costs, more software choices, and long-term compatibility. What is WRONG is for the minority to insist that the rest can't do that, or for groups of smart bureaucrats to claim that the majority is wrong. If nothing else, history has demonstrated again and again that the majority of consumers IS NOT wrong.

Microsoft's dominance may have been inevitable (it totally destroys your "consumer choice" angle by the way)

Consumer choice exists ATOP the platform. Furthermore, there has ALWAYS been parallel software ecosystems that consumers can choose from if the dominant one doesn't meet their needs. That will exist as long as you can't satisfy everybody with one system (which would never happen).

The majority of software options, developers and products will be oriented around the dominant system. But then again, that's the BENEFIT that led consumers to favor a single dominant standard.

Who are "they"? The governments of Japan and Korea? Presumably they decided that government monopolies were good. There are many instances of government monopolies delivering excellent outcomes because their main aim is to benefit the community.

If they thought that, they wouldn't have stopped protecting the monopolies from competition. Rather, they didn't have this fear of big companies, which is an accident of their history, to be sure, but it led to a more natural winding down of the dominant players market power. NTT DoCoMo (the wireless arm majority owned (at least it was) by NTT) has perhaps a 60% market share, while KT in Korea has a 50% share of the broadband market. Large shares, to be sure, but unavoidable given the concentration of capital built up by government protection of telecom companies.

By leaving these companies alone, they managed to build an economy where LOTS of competitors made LOTS of money, growing to challenge their dominance in new markets.

The main aim of a business monopoly is to enrich the owners and managers of the company.

Yes, which is the point. Enriched companies are profitable companies, which is the kind of thing that builds efficiency, large companies, and national wealth. I WANT companies to worry ONLY about their own profit interests, because if they are doing that, they are engaging in the kind of division of labor which make free markets so effective.

Besides, it is classic misdirection yet again. Microsoft's problems are not because it is a monopoly, but because it is abusing its monopoly power.

Read up on the KT and NTT DoCoMo cases. By European, and perhaps, US standards, both companies "abused" their monopolies by leveraging their dominance in fixed line access to squeeze their way into new markets (KT more than NTT, to be sure, but NTT was helped by its fixed line dominance).

In other words, Korea and Japan took a very different view of "abuse" of their market position, practically defining it away, at least in the case of their former monopoly telecoms.

That is the RIGHT approach. Even dominant companies should be allowed to leverage their skills in one market (dominated or not) to enter new markets.
Posted by: John Carroll   Posted on: 03/31/04 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

Alert moderator to an offensive message

Subscribe to this discussion via Email or RSS

Anti-trust needed...  Tim Patterson | 03/30/04
Amen to that! (nt)  el1jones | 03/30/04
Numbers speak for themselves  Christopher McLendon | 03/30/04
Misleading...  Tim Patterson | 03/30/04
Misleading  tomaras@... | 03/30/04
this is way to confusing  V Sanders | 03/31/04
Statistics, not features, are all that matters  mtl | 03/31/04
I agree, but  rapson | 03/31/04
Yes they would.  STDog | 03/31/04
What numbers?  zd-spam | 03/30/04
Anti-trust needed...  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
Oh Geez ... Here we go ...  coffeenite | 03/30/04
Oh Geez ... Here we go ...  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
Reverse MS logic...  MacCanuck | 03/30/04
Reverse MS logic..  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
Taking over  MacCanuck | 03/30/04
Taking over  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
Ignore SeoSamh. He is like Bit Byte.  systemcleaner | 03/30/04
Ignore SeoSamh. He is like Bit Byte  seosamh_z | 03/31/04
Welcome to the club  rapson | 03/31/04
You need humans  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
you ignore leverage john  hipparchus | 03/30/04
John, you're good at obfuscating the situation...  MacCanuck | 03/30/04
stop making excuses for stupid people!  stephen732@... | 03/30/04
stop making excuses for stupid people!  tomaras@... | 03/30/04
really pitiful argument  zd-spam | 03/30/04
Get it? Too hard for you to understand?  systemcleaner | 03/30/04
Wow John, your true colour are showing  Fred Fredrickson | 03/30/04
My favorite color is "red"  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Misdirection, the magician's tool  Fred Fredrickson | 03/31/04
No magic to it  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Are people arguing about the same thing here?  Zogg | 03/31/04
That's what they do  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 04/01/04
Not adding up...  Zogg | 04/01/04
Come on John  bgoss@... | 03/30/04
I can't believe you said this...  Rodney Davis | 03/30/04
Functional replacements  Fred Fredrickson | 03/30/04
I appreciate your point, but...  Rodney Davis | 03/31/04
But that's just it  rapson | 03/31/04
Striving to Monopoly is the NORM....  quietLee | 03/31/04
I'm not buying it.  el1jones | 03/30/04
I'm not buying it.  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
BTW, MSN is not a monopoly. -- HUH?  coffeenite | 03/30/04
BTW, MSN is not a monopoly. -- HUH?  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
"Ever heard of AOL? Proprietary software required." HUH?  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
What?  coffeenite | 03/30/04
You don't NEED it  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
"Ever heard of AOL? Proprietary software required." HUH?  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
I love analogies  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Media PLayer is just a very good media player  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
re : Media PLayer is just a very good media player  V Sanders | 03/31/04
re: I love analogies too  stephen732@... | 03/30/04
you dont  JoeMama_z | 03/30/04
Because...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Piss off John....  TrollSlayer | 03/31/04
Ah! The bottom line...  Zogg | 03/31/04
Of course you do  Fred Fredrickson | 03/30/04
That's because they are effective  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
At misdirection  Fred Fredrickson | 03/31/04
pro M$??  benopdezolder | 04/06/04
Maybe Legislation is not the way to go  DevilsAdvocado | 03/30/04
re: Maybe Legislation is not the way to go  stephen732@... | 03/30/04
IBM & Anti-trust  Fred Fredrickson | 03/30/04
The Lone Ranger  DevilsAdvocado | 04/01/04
Monty Pynthonesque... but probably spot on. (nt)  Fred Fredrickson | 04/03/04
Yeah, umm...  Bob/Paul | 03/30/04
Convince your family to run Linux  cchenoweth | 03/30/04
GE analogy flawed  voska | 03/30/04
GE analogy flawed  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
I agree with you  voska | 03/30/04
Not so flawed as your rejoinder  Mack DaNife | 03/30/04
Not so flawed as your rejoinder  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
That dodge engine  voska | 03/30/04
That dodge engine  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
Are you serious....  DarbyOhara | 03/30/04
Free speach  Ardian Daka | 03/30/04
She has rights too  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
That's all well and good  John Dulles | 03/30/04
you are adding points...  ryusen | 03/30/04
Not Quite  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
I'm saying there are reasons why the market has coalesced around Microsoft  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
Lots of people conclude the wrong thing  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Not Quite  dshans | 03/31/04
About time...  Patrick Jones | 03/30/04
Deferral  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Oh.  Patrick Jones | 03/31/04
No, Microsoft's business practices a BIG mistake.  DonnieBoy | 03/30/04
Governments "interfere" with design all the time - for the better  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
Microsoft security  voska | 03/30/04
Governments "interfere" with design all the time - for the better  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
No difference  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
No difference  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
re: just one code.  ryusen | 03/30/04
re: just one code.  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
what force?  ryusen | 03/30/04
what force?  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
yep  ryusen | 03/30/04
This isn't security regulations  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Misrepresentation?  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
Connecting the dots  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
wrong analogy  NemesisNL | 03/31/04
Radio airtime has ALWAYS been open  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Then why  NemesisNL | 03/31/04
This isn't security regulations  dshans | 03/31/04
guess  richhayes | 03/30/04
Talk about what you know about...  quietLee | 03/31/04
I can't agree with you less, John.  Mack DaNife | 03/30/04
All good reason for using Linux  voska | 03/30/04
Re: All good reason for using Linux  Mack DaNife | 03/30/04
exactly  V Sanders | 03/31/04
I can't agree with you less, John.  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
re:  ryusen | 03/30/04
re:  seosamh_z | 03/30/04
re:  ryusen | 03/30/04
re:  seosamh_z | 03/31/04
maybe...  ryusen | 03/31/04
Some responses  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Media Player is more API than user application  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
Small correction...  Fred Fredrickson | 03/31/04
power of the  NemesisNL | 03/31/04
Drugs obviously better in Ireland...  scotus | 03/30/04
API  Ardian Daka | 03/30/04
You will note that my response...  scotus | 03/30/04
Anti-trust outdated - your very arguments say otherwise.  mathandmetal | 03/30/04
Uh, Mr. Carroll: MS is a *lawbreaker*. They require oversight.  ordaj@... | 03/30/04
You have it backwards  Mark Gist | 03/30/04
Overflow  pj-xmesh | 03/30/04
Knew it was JC from the title alone ... big bias here  oldskool | 03/30/04
Agree and disagree John.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
They have to try to maintain their market capitization  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
I really think it's more about egos.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
fully agree about the egos (nt)  ryusen | 03/30/04
I think 2 separate MSs would lose market share & value  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
Maybe, but does it matter?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Maybe, but does it matter?  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
Re: Maybe, but does it matter?  none none | 03/30/04
computting is not a zero-sum-game  oldskool | 03/30/04
Never thought bitty would come around ...  oldskool | 03/30/04
Yes, no and maybe...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Standardisation would improve MS productivity  oldskool | 03/30/04
why can't....  ryusen | 03/30/04
POerhaps if you were open to other opinions...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
who's not reading who's posts well?  ryusen | 03/30/04
I see...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
The core issues  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
See no evil?  Robert Crocker | 03/30/04
You've missed something critical  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
No one is missing anything...  scotus | 03/31/04
REAL?!? SUBSTANTIVE?!?  Robert Crocker | 03/31/04
John, that's because the whole  ordaj@... | 03/30/04
Before the antitrust trial  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
John, that's the point...  ordaj@... | 03/30/04
Counter points to consider John  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Interesting points  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Ehm not quite  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
Your not listening John.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Was it the first building you designed?  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
No, it was the first time I had this inspector.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Again, good point  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Let me clarify if I can.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/31/04
Middle ground: Stop breaking the law and...  scotus | 03/31/04
Stop the spin ... focus on the core issue  oldskool | 03/30/04
Are you serious?  Mack DaNife | 04/01/04
You negledted to mention the antipathy of the big IT outfits  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
core issues  Mack DaNife | 04/01/04
removing media player...  ryusen | 03/30/04
locked out  richhayes | 03/30/04
psychologically...  ryusen | 03/30/04
psychologically  richhayes | 03/30/04
really?  ryusen | 03/31/04
you are wrong  V Sanders | 03/31/04
You are wrong too.  Fred Fredrickson | 03/31/04
wow... you should get a job doing this...  ryusen | 03/31/04
Indeed, you're very predictable  avdp | 03/30/04
Predictability  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Wrong  j.m.galvin | 03/30/04
That IS a ruling  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Wrong again  j.m.galvin | 03/31/04
every reason to expect  avdp | 03/30/04
Stallman and Carroll are predictable...  scotus | 03/30/04
Apple's and Oranges  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
This I disagree with  Michael Kelly | 03/30/04
The essence of the problem  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Text editing vs. media playing  Michael Kelly | 03/30/04
why it's wrong...  ryusen | 03/30/04
Re: why it's wrong...  none none | 03/30/04
Of possible interest  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
WRONG!  Robert Crocker | 03/30/04
COWABUNGA!  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Re: Integrating GOOD technology  George Jay | 03/30/04
good point ... MS has kill VC market for SW companies  oldskool | 03/30/04
VC  A.Sinic | 03/31/04
try to get money ... anti-MS strategy a top concern  oldskool | 03/31/04
No one said it was easy  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
So what you're saying is ...  George Jay | 04/01/04
oh, puh-leeeze!  Robert Crocker | 03/31/04
COWABUNGA......  dshans | 03/31/04
Oh Carroll you got me eatin' my heart away...  BanjoPaterson | 03/30/04
It's NOT about MEdia Player!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Correct  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
But the fact is...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
Okay  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Sale on red herrings!!!  Robert Crocker | 03/31/04
Re: There should be limits on what governments are allowed  George Jay | 03/31/04
Re: The notion that consumers no longer have control  George Jay | 03/30/04
If I remember correctly...  Michael Kelly | 03/30/04
the REAL problem is MS introduces new formats  oldskool | 03/30/04
So was the OJ verdict  Harvey Birdman | 03/30/04
Thank GOD the EU has more brains than most folks...  realitycheck101 | 03/30/04
I wish you could articulate a thought without the foolishness.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/30/04
WHAT technology?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/30/04
How much would this slow development?  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
Inclusion as API, not UI  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/30/04
Hmmm  NemesisNL | 03/30/04
re:  ryusen | 03/30/04
US COA also said MS needed to allow removal by user  oldskool | 03/30/04
The most flawed logic yet  Fred Fredrickson | 03/30/04
What a surprise  zd-spam | 03/30/04
That's because ...  George Jay | 03/30/04
"Integration" is really bundling by another name  George Jay | 03/30/04
News Commentary EC's Microsoft ruling--a big mistake Penalizing the formerly legal - farcical logic  Fred Fredrickson | 03/30/04
What'd you do to the title?  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 03/31/04
Ah, my secret...  Fred Fredrickson | 03/31/04
John you are boring and too predictable and you are wrong.  systemcleaner | 03/30/04
If only MS would just drop the pretence ...  jellyclock | 03/31/04
We need the standards that Microsoft Provides  MSG_z | 03/31/04
Why must it be MS-created...  MacCanuck | 03/31/04
Response  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 04/01/04
Are you suggesting everyone fold up shop  MacCanuck | 04/01/04
EC's ruling  joseph.like@... | 03/31/04
"design decisions for Windows get taken away from programmers "  rfuller@... | 03/31/04
Capitalism  Mydrrin | 03/31/04
Do I smell an alternative agenda?  Beejaybee | 03/31/04
Do I smell a hidden agenda?  Beejaybee | 03/31/04
EU cash raid on MS  wbathurs | 03/31/04
Perhaps the same could be said of the case in Japan?  B.O.F.H. | 04/01/04
Where are those talented critics?  AdeOghert | 03/31/04
EC doesn't have vested interest in keeping MS powerful  YuridaMan | 03/31/04
Economics  bjbrock | 03/31/04
John professes to have a degree in economics ...  George Jay | 03/31/04
Because John doesn't have a degree in Computer Science  George Jay | 03/31/04
Degrees  John L. Ries | 04/03/04
It's a common complaint  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 04/01/04
Re: It's a common complaint  George Jay | 04/01/04
Amazing as it may seem...  scotus | 04/01/04
BTW, the assumptions required for...  scotus | 04/01/04
more then a big mistake  V Sanders | 03/31/04
Some thoughts  John L. Ries | 04/03/04
Calling John's bluff  Robert Crocker | 04/03/04
Bush's Blunder in Iraq might explain ...  mikemikef | 04/05/04

What do you think?

SponsoredWhite Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

advertisement

SmartPlanet

Click Here