A response to Richard Stallman

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Acknowledged...: John,

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your position.

From the articles I have read of yours in the past, your economic positions seemed very strongly influenced by Rand and Objectivism. I guess that is my own ignorance about all the different economic perspectives showing. Sorry about that.

I won't make that mistake again.

And again, thank you for taking the time to write your articles in the first place. It is clear you take great care in preparing them. I think you do a great job clearly presenting your point of view methodically.

I also know you don't get paid for these writings. And while I do not always agree with them, they certainly give me pause to think deeply about my own positions.

Jim O'Flaherty; Posted by: jim_oflaherty_jr Posted on: 01/13/04 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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it's not important what "we" believe, it's fact which count mgalle | 01/08/04

Interesting point John Carroll

| 01/08/04

The brings to light ParadigmOdyssey | 01/08/04

A response to John Carroll jim_oflaherty_jr | 01/08/04

Excess Capacity quietLee | 01/09/04

Now supposing Newton was a picture on the ParadigmOdyssey | 01/09/04

Bicycles, software, etc. rapson | 01/09/04

Thank you, Carl [oops, prematurely posted last one]... jim_oflaherty_jr | 01/11/04

Don't try to pigeonhole me... John Carroll

| 01/11/04

You have Pigenholed yourself Mr. Carroll Aphelion | 01/12/04

Dilemma rapson | 01/11/04

I completely understand your dilemma... jim_oflaherty_jr | 01/13/04

I'm not an obvjectivist John Carroll

| 01/11/04

Acknowledged... jim_oflaherty_jr | 01/13/04

By the way... John Carroll

| 01/12/04

I am looking forward to your response... jim_oflaherty_jr | 01/13/04

Do You Believe in Private Property Rights? P. Douglas | 01/09/04

But is software "property"? rapson | 01/09/04

Communism Redux P. Douglas | 01/09/04

Private Property is for Physical objects voska | 01/11/04

But is software "property"... wploger | 01/12/04

Yes it is...depending on where you sit Mark Miller | 01/13/04

Part 2... Mark Miller | 01/13/04

I think you misunderstood rapson | 01/13/04

I agree and disagree.... wploger | 01/12/04

why _ALL_ distribution of binaries software is worthing of money ? mgalle | 01/08/04

Because we live in an age of unchecked greed GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Because... John Carroll

| 01/08/04

The GPL can create a lot of revenue. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

Excellent Point, DonnieBoy coffeenite | 01/09/04

GPL is a valid proposition StorageGuru | 01/08/04

Some of the best and the brightest work on open source. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

Marketing gimmick? IT_User | 01/08/04

Interesting parallels... John Carroll

| 01/08/04

I think we're in basic agreement IT_User | 01/08/04

You have to pay to make it work StorageGuru | 01/08/04

Who said... IT_User | 01/08/04

inux doesn't work at the enterprise level without the proprietary add ons f NemesisNL | 01/08/04

You pay for the Windows licenses then you pay for support voska | 01/11/04

who's behind Stallman & Co? dg mh | 01/08/04

Stallman has all the money he needs, he is a great person. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

where are the money coming from? dg mh | 01/08/04

Richard Stallman is a great programmer, he could make all he wanted. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

so he is a less opressor than evil MS happy

dg mh | 01/08/04

the money is comming from ... Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

who's behind Stallman & Co? hognoxious | 01/11/04

Journalism has gone the way of the fishes GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Suppose 'nobody'' could ''SELL''''Liscences.!! ParadigmOdyssey | 01/08/04

client server jtwillia | 01/08/04

Only works if server provides something rpmyers1 | 01/08/04

Yes, that is a viable model... John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Not only viable, but common IT_User | 01/08/04

Yes, but... John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Yes, Stallman is not always right, but he gave us so much. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

I was just ParadigmOdyssey | 01/08/04

Carroll once again shows his brilliance.. Mike Cox | 01/08/04

Are you an economist for Bush?? rock06r | 01/08/04

Open source programmers are not poor. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

A couple of points Taz_z | 01/08/04

You are correct John Carroll

| 01/08/04

John, John, John... dscherf | 01/08/04

I wasn't... John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Okay dscherf | 01/08/04

But John, if programmers are making money, and it is sustainable, why not? DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

IBM John Carroll

| 01/08/04

But they are making money of of GPL code. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

Closed Source = Futile Battle serpentmage | 01/08/04

I don't agree John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Once again, for all the wrong reasons Daisy Fontana | 01/09/04

It isn't either-or IT_User | 01/08/04

NO WAY! coffeenite | 01/09/04

A response to John... avilensk1966@... | 01/08/04

I understand that John Carroll

| 01/08/04

I could agree with almost everything you said here, DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

A brief response to John Carroll's BS. dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

Licencing tero_t_vaananen@... | 01/08/04

I agree John Carroll

| 01/08/04

extreme position ? NemesisNL | 01/08/04

Interesting Point John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Compete? NemesisNL | 01/08/04

Think further Fred Fredrickson | 01/08/04

a recipe for anarchy, not socialism. NemesisNL | 01/09/04

To Taurus John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Good! Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

Hmmm, interesting. I thought Gates' $100 Billion circa 2000 was tops, dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

It's HOW he got so rich which is disgusting Mikael_z | 01/10/04

I dunno ickusslime@... | 01/08/04

Look at who I respond to John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Look who John Carroll does not respond to, David Mohring | 01/08/04

Cool! Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

Playing games John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Admit it, John, you hate Mohring's GREAT citations, never OT dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

He hates it when you arguments are so good. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

EXACTLY GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Guilty? David Mohring | 01/08/04

Different situation Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

A better solution... toadlife | 01/08/04

Exactly...too much truth for John GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Where in the article does it say OSS is bad? toadlife | 01/08/04

Almost everywhere, by connotation and association... dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

It does not John Carroll

| 01/08/04

SO, if I say you're full of it, I get hot coffee in the face? Tsk tsk. dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

That's the way John "debates" GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Heh, heh. Even Bitty_the_Ax doesn't lose it like that, eh? dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

Well, you're just going to HATE John Carroll

| 01/08/04

I have no problem... GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Really? Mark Miller | 01/13/04

See it from my angle John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Taurus/Dick marksashton | 01/12/04

Apples and Oranges... Patrick Jones | 01/08/04

Drop it. vdraken | 01/08/04

That's true... epaval@... | 01/08/04

80% NET profit:Microsoft ripping off the consumer David Mohring | 01/08/04

What's wrong with 80%? Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

Ardian, it doesn't have to be illegal to stink. dicktaurus@... | 01/08/04

waw Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

That's not abnormal for successful software John Carroll

| 01/09/04

John you continue to fudge the facts David Mohring | 01/09/04

Conspicuous absence of links John Carroll

| 01/09/04

Conspicuous absence of critical thought Robert Crocker | 01/10/04

Some links to help... John Carroll

| 01/09/04

RE: That's not abnormal for successful software Iain_Peters | 01/09/04

Huh? John Carroll

| 01/09/04

I wouldn't knock high profit margins...if NemesisNL | 01/09/04

re: Huh? Iain_Peters | 01/10/04

Stallman is deaf to common sense and reason AtypicalZork | 01/08/04

He's just a poster boy of a hidden agenda! dg mh | 01/08/04

The programmers will do just fine, it is the glass skyscrapers DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

right... dg mh | 01/09/04

Almost all open source programmers are paid. DonnieBoy | 01/11/04

How original dscherf | 01/08/04

So does that mean... rapson | 01/08/04

Use it? dscherf | 01/08/04

It really was about using it, not selling it AtypicalZork | 01/08/04

On your points dscherf | 01/08/04

dscherf, this has nothing to do with the GPL AtypicalZork | 01/09/04

You're not making sense dscherf | 01/09/04

But it has EVERYTHING to do with the GPL dscherf | 01/09/04

The "profit" factor Robert Crocker | 01/08/04

Applying GPL to your example... epaval@... | 01/08/04

5% of all programmers are actually engaged in writing "for sale" David Mohring | 01/08/04

Applying GPL to your example... NoB$ | 01/08/04

No mistakes here epaval@... | 01/08/04

Ummm, no. Robert Crocker | 01/08/04

True epaval@... | 01/08/04

The article uses an artificial dichotomy Robert Crocker | 01/08/04

Why artificial John Carroll

| 01/08/04

what's the problem? NemesisNL | 01/08/04

Somebody better tell Gillette dscherf | 01/09/04

You're missing the point Robert Crocker | 01/10/04

Come back to reality Fred Fredrickson | 01/08/04

But Profit... John Carroll

| 01/08/04

Hogwash Robert Crocker | 01/09/04

Hog-drying John Carroll

| 01/09/04

That undermines SOFTWARE companies NemesisNL | 01/09/04

HIt the nail on the head voska | 01/11/04

Hog set, blow, and perm. Robert Crocker | 01/10/04

Coexistence Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

How Does the Capitalist View Open Source [and GPL]? David Mohring | 01/08/04

WOW NemesisNL | 01/08/04

GPL isn't communist John Carroll

| 01/09/04

I would call its leading practitioner mildly totalitarian NemesisNL | 01/09/04

The facts and evidence defy John Carroll David Mohring | 01/08/04

Yes, his ridiculous arguments just help open source. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

Until the world changes, tangible profits still sought FilledOut | 01/08/04

Ask IBM,Novell,HP,Intel,AMD,Sun,Oracle, .... David Mohring | 01/08/04

Read back through my Zdnet posts FilledOut | 01/08/04

False Premise John Carroll

| 01/09/04

Pity you choose to ignore what could save embarrassment David Mohring | 01/09/04

A response John Carroll

| 01/09/04

Socialism has NEVER worked. No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

Nither have dictatorships based upon lies and deception David Mohring | 01/08/04

Here's why: Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

How does that invalidate my argument. David Mohring | 01/08/04

Example please. NoB$ | 01/08/04

wrong Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

Actually, you are wrong Patrick Jones | 01/08/04

not complete Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

I think you are mistaken.. Patrick Jones | 01/09/04

socialism Ardian Daka | 01/12/04

I would suggest a history class. No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

Neither does Capitolism slopoke | 01/08/04

Not a good anlogy dg mh | 01/08/04

How can the GPL and IBM be even consided communist? David Mohring | 01/08/04

IBM is the ruler, GPL is the "happy" people dg mh | 01/08/04

Huh? Robert Crocker | 01/08/04

WHAT? IT_User | 01/08/04

what what? dg mh | 01/08/04

Wow... Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

Socialism is not a valid comparison Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

To put it another way... No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

There's profit and there's profit NemesisNL | 01/08/04

OSS is not socialism NemesisNL | 01/08/04

Tools of applied socialism pj-xmesh | 01/10/04

Socialism Works fine voska | 01/11/04

schematics are important Jay_H | 01/08/04

Stallman in a sentence Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

In Full Context: Freedom or Power? David Mohring | 01/08/04

Copy and paste. Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

Cut and construe? Robert Crocker | 01/08/04

Welcome back Robert. Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

No difference rapson | 01/08/04

The difference is in the reasoning Robert Crocker | 01/08/04

Agreed Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

Myopia on both sides Eric Guerber | 01/08/04

Regarding profit John Carroll

| 01/08/04

What's Stallman stands for ... in his own words: Ardian Daka | 01/08/04

Plain and simple, the man is a freak. No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

No valid argument, Mr. Ad Hominem (NT) dscherf | 01/08/04

But he is voska | 01/11/04

But that's not the definition of a freak dscherf | 01/12/04

They do in my book voska | 01/12/04

So was Einstein, and they are both brilliant. DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

No, Einstien was paid for his work. No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

Actually... GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Message has been deleted. No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

Wow... Martin Marvinski | 01/08/04

Actually Daisy Fontana | 01/08/04

Hitler was brilliant, what's you point? No_Ax_to_Grind | 01/08/04

So True NemesisNL | 01/08/04

Hitler was a murderous, racist pederast. Fred Fredrickson | 01/11/04

Most brilliance dies of with age voska | 01/11/04

It's called being cynical NemesisNL | 01/13/04

Gates is "brilliant" too, and you follow him whereever GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

BTW, try not to get your angry posts deleted too often GRindinAxTaRupy | 01/08/04

Yes, Hitler is a lot like Bill Gates, here we are talking about good freaks DonnieBoy | 01/08/04

Imitate? I think you mean emulate (NM) Fred Fredrickson | 01/09/04

Name calling?!? Robert Crocker | 01/12/04

John = Clueless (as usual?) Daisy Fontana | 01/08/04

Reality check russofris | 01/08/04

Logical & lucid - so you're ignored. Fred Fredrickson | 01/10/04

More Response John Carroll

| 01/11/04

Less is more Fred Fredrickson | 01/14/04

There are other ways to generate revenue. mariomiy | 01/08/04

Wrong again! devooght@... | 01/08/04

Developers have no god given right to subsidies Brendans | 01/08/04

RS - Our greatest treasure ... Our greatest embarressment George Mitchell | 01/08/04

Journalist Misses the Point mslicker | 01/08/04

The drug company analogy is nieve. waylander_2k@... | 01/09/04

You are mostly right here. Mack DaNife | 01/09/04

A response to Richard Stallman lpletch@... | 01/09/04

Response on the ZDNet UK site John Carroll

| 01/09/04

Why the surprise John? GNU Manifesto been around since '84 Sleveless | 01/09/04

wasting electrons xman_z | 01/09/04

Hahahahahahahahahahaha Daisy Fontana | 01/09/04

Stallman has his good points though FilledOut | 01/10/04

Is GPL the commonest form of Open Source Linsensing? KSchaefer | 01/10/04

what if tivo didn't use linux JWatson77 | 01/11/04

what is and what should never be ? pj-xmesh | 01/11/04

Two basic mistakes praksys | 01/11/04

and a third one on your side Ardian Daka | 01/12/04

Freedom not be asked? praksys | 01/15/04

My View on Open Source Free Software voska | 01/11/04

Carroll's position is reasonable. Tim Patterson | 01/12/04

reasonable? NemesisNL | 01/13/04

What Really Matters? fosterd42 | 01/12/04

Mr. Stallman peculiar | 01/12/04

Let me make this clear for those who don't read JJ_z | 01/13/04

Interesting Copyright notice on Mr. Stallman's Article JJ_z | 01/13/04

What do you think?

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