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The Imp of the Perverse
You complain that IE does not follow the "standards" set by the W3C:

If I want to use CSS for all the benefits it offers, I have to build TWO CSS FILES and add browser detect code to my pages because while all of the non-IE browser render CSS in compliance with the standardizing body's (W3C)reccomendations, IE CONTINUES TO JUST NOT RENDER
STANDARDIZED CODE PROPERLY!

IE is or was the browser in use on more than 90% of pc's. That makes it the de facto standard. The W3C is one standards setting body. There are others, and in fact Microsoft made IE compliant with standards set by a different body.

Though I couldn't point to a quote, it seems the W3C does not allow for Microsoft's innovations in IE because they come from Microsoft. The standard setters are familiar with IE, they know its popularity, they know the standards of those standards introduced and maintained by Microsoft.

Despite that, they avoided recognizing Microsoft's contribution in the standards.

More perversely, some people have chosen to accept the W3C standards above others which could have averted the difficulty.

More perversely still, Microsoft is being criticized for not following standards which were devised in opposition to them.

As Edgar Allen Poe's narrator said in "The Imp of the Perverse":
Through [the] promptings [of the perverse] we act without comprehensible object; or, if this shall be understood as a contradiction in terms, we may so far modify the proposition as to say, that through its promptings we act, for the reason that we should not. In theory, no reason can be more unreasonable; but, in fact, there is none more strong. With certain minds, under certain conditions it becomes absolutely irresistible. I am not more certain that I breathe, than that the assurance of the wrong or error of any action is often the one unconquerable force which impels us, and alone impels us to its prosecution. Nor will this overwhelming tendency to do wrong for the wrong's sake, admit of analysis, or resolution into ulterior elements. It is radical, a primitive impulse -- elementary.

Civilization should lead to the acceptance of IE's capabilities as standard, but even civilization has a difficult time against the perverse.
Posted by: Anton Philidor   Posted on: 02/15/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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All you NMBers can thank FireFox now..  Xunil_Sierutuf | 02/15/05
That's NBMers btw, and yes, competition is good!  TechType | 02/15/05
Doh! Dyslexic am I.. Proud Yoda would be..  Xunil_Sierutuf | 02/15/05
Yup, competition is a good thing.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/15/05
Let me know when it arrives, okay?  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Wow! You really worked on that!  Martin Marvinski | 02/15/05
Of course security is important.  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
You really need to work on your sales pitch  Michael Kelly | 02/15/05
Good partyspeak, comrade.  bhayes@... | 02/15/05
The Imp of the Perverse  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
... they know the VALUE of those standards ...  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
You are everywhere...  bhayes@... | 02/15/05
Actually...  d00fuss | 02/15/05
IE, the de facto standard?  jbaviera@... | 02/15/05
What do you think standards are all about???  Henk de Boer | 02/15/05
The Imp is alive and kicking.  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Microsoft is a corporation... NOT a standards body...  shawkins | 02/16/05
Standalone IE  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
What?  IceTheNet@... | 02/16/05
Isn't a Standard  trevogre | 02/22/05
And despite those changes...  Martin Marvinski | 02/15/05
I suggested ...  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Sorry buddy...  Mike (not Cox) | 02/16/05
Isn't that special. Hmmmm.  Pebkac Charlie | 02/15/05
They're already smart...  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Sounds like you want Firefox wink  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
I considered FireFox an interesting alternative...  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Wah so CEO's last 5 years  Linux User 147560 | 02/16/05
Good sense.  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Standards?  johnlb2002 | 02/16/05
Do you think if Microsoft met the "standards"...  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Paranoid delusions of persecution...  MacCanuck | 02/16/05
What profit for Microsoft in mp4?  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
What?  cashaww | 02/16/05
Re: Let me know when it arrives, okay?  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Good Ole Microsoft  alterego_z | 02/15/05
Re: Good Ole Microsoft  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
NEWS FLASH: Hell Freezes Over  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
RE: NEWS FLASH: Hell Freezes Over  dbrannan | 02/15/05
Ummm did you read the 1st paragraph?  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
From what I read  Omch'Ar | 02/15/05
Typical spin  theo_durcan | 02/15/05
Yes I did  dbrannan | 02/15/05
Bull!  johnlb2002 | 02/16/05
What I mean is...  dbrannan | 02/16/05
Mozilla...Just lovely  Cayble | 02/18/05
Give me a break  Squawkbox | 02/16/05
I didn't say that.  dbrannan | 02/16/05
Then that's even worse  Martin Marvinski | 02/15/05
Hmmm  dbrannan | 02/15/05
I don't  Martin Marvinski | 02/15/05
He may not be stupid  AmusedAtItAll | 02/15/05
I can explain a bit  d00fuss | 02/16/05
I woul'd rather they wait until Longhorn comes out...  el1jones | 02/15/05
"so that they can get it right"  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
AND to further prove my point  Squawkbox | 02/15/05
Wow  IT Scion | 02/15/05
But wasn't that...  rapson | 02/15/05
By definition...  Michael Kelly | 02/15/05
Okay, Let me clarify...  el1jones | 02/15/05
Get It Right?  mhuddy | 02/16/05
Of course there will be security holes  Michael Kelly | 02/15/05
Longhorn Vaporware  dr_who@... | 02/15/05
Funny  cashaww | 02/16/05
OK, so they add tabbed browsing  skeptic tank | 02/15/05
tabbed browsing and popup blocker: Microsoft stealing IP from Open Source?  hipparchus2000 | 02/15/05
You cannot steal from open source.  rkadowns | 02/15/05
Hence the existence of Sun.(NT)  IT Scion | 02/15/05
you try taking the code from my GPL prorams and selling it proprietary ware  hipparchus2000 | 02/15/05
Try this...  Hugh Jass | 02/15/05
Don't see it  rapson | 02/16/05
I don't think it's Microsoft  magcomment | 02/16/05
Apologies... just checked a brand new install of XP Pro and it's not there.  Hugh Jass | 02/16/05
Wrong!  wresnick | 02/15/05
Sure you can...  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Where did you come up with something like this?  AmusedAtItAll | 02/15/05
Shows what you know about OSS  nucrash | 02/16/05
Huh?  rapson | 02/15/05
IBM's hidden R&D department - NT  osreinstall | 02/15/05
Not quite  seosamh_z | 02/15/05
Don't be surprised  AmusedAtItAll | 02/15/05
Where Does It Say MS Added Tabbed Browsing?  itanalyst | 02/15/05
It doesn't  skeptic tank | 02/15/05
Well, they'll look pretty damn stupid if they do...  James T. Kirk | 02/16/05
Why turn off active x?  dch48 | 02/15/05
Active X is useful?????  johnlb2002 | 02/16/05
Question  cashaww | 02/16/05
Bingo!  Motu | 02/15/05
Microsoft wants the browser to die, but Firefox won't let them do it.  DonnieBoy | 02/15/05
Exactly!  PXLated | 02/15/05
So could it be said  rkadowns | 02/15/05
If..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/15/05
Firefox is not stoping them......  dave95 | 02/15/05
A good point in there.  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Hopefully...  Omch'Ar | 02/15/05
Waste of money?  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Willing customers are better than resigned customers.  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Interesting, but...  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Responsive.  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Hm...  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
I agree with each of your points.  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
Anton, you must get your paycheck from Redmond.  bhayes@... | 02/15/05
Oh! thought it was Mike Cox (nt)  el1jones | 02/15/05
I doubt Firefox has that much influence  George Jay | 02/15/05
Security or profit?  qcimushroom | 02/16/05
Microsoft used to be decent software  xenomorf0337 | 02/16/05
Trust Us, Again?  Harry Bardal | 02/15/05
I find it funny  IT Scion | 02/15/05
Choice?  Harry Bardal | 02/15/05
Choice?  Jim Connell | 02/15/05
Nice try  IT Scion | 02/16/05
Playing catch-up  Eggs Ackley_z | 02/15/05
XP w/ SP2 only?!?!  Blackdog_z | 02/15/05
I wonder why ford doesn't carry spare  osreinstall | 02/15/05
Do you remember...  Omch'Ar | 02/15/05
No I was busy  osreinstall | 02/15/05
RE  Blackdog_z | 02/15/05
Majority of cars on road are used  osreinstall | 02/15/05
Bad analogy  Blackdog_z | 02/15/05
You miss the point  osreinstall | 02/15/05
new O/S  webwevol@... | 02/15/05
Sensible  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Let's hope so  rapson | 02/15/05
This article proves  IT Scion | 02/15/05
Competition??  aallord | 02/15/05
Thank you  IT Scion | 02/15/05
And...  IT Scion | 02/15/05
You must have a bad memory...  MacCanuck | 02/16/05
I agree...  Mack DaNife | 02/16/05
Very good point  IT Scion | 02/16/05
Of course  edsy2k | 02/15/05
FireFox...Whatever!!  ColdFusion_z | 02/15/05
ColdFusion?  bhayes@... | 02/15/05
Can you tell us  michael-t | 02/15/05
explain yourself  ColdFusion_z | 02/15/05
I don't really care...  michael-t | 02/15/05
Re: Whatever  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Standards are Easier than IE  mcrute | 02/16/05
MS is NOT a standards setting entity...  dzash2000 | 02/16/05
FireFox...Whatever!!  jknight_z | 02/15/05
my replies  ColdFusion_z | 02/15/05
Your replies...  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Correction...  John L. Ries | 02/15/05
Firefox.....Whatever  jknight_z | 02/16/05
The crowd has spoken?  Michael Kelly | 02/15/05
nope  ColdFusion_z | 02/15/05
I think you are overlooking that MS is the giant that  Laff | 02/15/05
When I visited the link in your post  Hugh Jass | 02/15/05
Techie Soapbox?  aallord | 02/15/05
Techies and Newbies  igohigh@... | 02/15/05
Newsflash...  Mike (not Cox) | 02/16/05
Real world new to the Internet?  nucrash | 02/16/05
As a company owner...  Mack DaNife | 02/16/05
Non-standard browsers welcome.  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Actually  Linux User 147560 | 02/16/05
I'll leave...  Mack DaNife | 02/16/05
Non-standard?  mcrute | 02/16/05
Of course.  Anton Philidor | 02/17/05
Wow  mnishiza | 02/18/05
Less capable than IE?  xenomorf0337 | 02/16/05
You need to come into the "real" world.  gworley@... | 02/16/05
SP2? What about Linux, Win 200x, and MAC? The only clear choice Firefox  gworley@... | 02/16/05
Re: FireFox...Whatever!!  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Don't sell the avg. user short.  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
RE:FireFox...Whatever!!  mnishiza | 02/18/05
It's a trick...  roo_z | 02/15/05
we WILL give you EVERYTHING you want  michael-t | 02/15/05
Good.  Anton Philidor | 02/15/05
DUH!  northridge | 02/15/05
Is MS Updating IE because of FireFox?  bill@... | 02/15/05
Heres a thought...  bhayes@... | 02/15/05
Well, who gives a flying anything?  Rinzai | 02/15/05
Who gives a flying SHEESH  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
Surprise, surprise  gmlong | 02/15/05
Why would anyone in their right mind go back?  gtdworak | 02/16/05
Re: Why would anyone in their right mind go back?  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Why  eticket | 02/15/05
But will IE7 support Web Standards?  jemshep | 02/15/05
IE and Web standards  Serpamac | 02/15/05
Now you know full well......  dave95 | 02/15/05
True, but...  nucrash | 02/16/05
Theres a reason for that  mcrute | 02/16/05
IE responds to Firefox  randprice | 02/15/05
Microsoft only cares about its own image not customers  randprice | 02/15/05
1 + 1 = M$ Forcing Your Hand  Oni_z | 02/15/05
MaArket Share? Why?  jeffjansen | 02/15/05
Re: MaArket Share? Why?  tbbrickster_z | 02/15/05
The best thing to do about MS updates and viruses.  deowll | 02/16/05
Service and Distribution revenue flow  merithin | 02/17/05
But they do lose money -- loads!  coffeenite | 02/17/05
IE Update  jencykelly | 02/15/05
MS site refuses to work with Firefox?  xenomorf0337 | 02/16/05
IE7 before Longhorn  jack@... | 02/15/05
This would lead one to  Linux User 147560 | 02/15/05
Rip off open source myth.  osreinstall | 02/15/05
They also said WMP was linked......  dave95 | 02/15/05
Doesn't mean...  rapson | 02/16/05
Ziegheil Fuhrer Gates!!!!!  StevieA | 02/15/05
Ziegheil Fuhrer Gates!!!!!  neverhome | 02/15/05
I will agree with you about IE  dave95 | 02/15/05
Your opinion has been noted  osreinstall | 02/15/05
Wow  IT Scion | 02/15/05
Momentary lapse of reason  osreinstall | 02/15/05
Holy $h!t !!  Hugh Jass | 02/15/05
....Batman!  dave95 | 02/15/05
The lie comes to light, competition is alive  mlindl | 02/15/05
Yada, yada, yada...  jrniccolls@... | 02/15/05
More Secure?  igohigh@... | 02/15/05
Perfectly secure  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
Heres 100% security for ya..  widge_z | 02/16/05
Great!!!  richdave | 02/15/05
Who gives a Rat's batooy?  gaelicfog@... | 02/15/05
FireFox Rox - it rhymes as well as it works!  Rashavarek | 02/15/05
Gates is consistent - he'll do anything to destroy competition!  netace_z | 02/15/05
IE update  wrmurray | 02/15/05
ieupdate 7  pcgeek_z | 02/15/05
A minor repeat  d00fuss | 02/15/05
My question to you  IT Scion | 02/15/05
CSS  bhayes@... | 02/15/05
Wonderful rant  IT Scion | 02/16/05
Ah.. you're not so smart, IT Scion  d00fuss | 02/16/05
No problem, I have a list  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
I know  IT Scion | 02/16/05
I dunno  d00fuss | 02/16/05
how can this be?  rohn_z | 02/15/05
Probably the same way they did it with IE 6  Hugh Jass | 02/15/05
IE can be disabled and/or uninstalled on all Windows OS  gworley@... | 02/16/05
How to lose the browser war....  mrs1622 | 02/15/05
IE lost me to Firefox  rflagg19 | 02/15/05
"Clean, fast, secure, stable, unbloated" - I like that happy  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
ME TOO !  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
Try watching TV in Firefox  jogiba@... | 02/15/05
Huh?  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
He is Rendering with 3D party plug-ins.  nucrash | 02/16/05
TV ? Why?  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
If you use Firefox you have no choice  jogiba@... | 02/16/05
Turn off the 'Puter  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
Must use a plugin  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
Whinge, Whinge, Whinge  Fujikid | 02/15/05
Perhaps but you are not the average user who purchases  Laff | 02/15/05
Thanks for the chance to agree.  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Wrong again  Linux User 147560 | 02/16/05
As long as the vendor makes all the choices...  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Did MSFT Outsource Their Astroturfers?  Chad_z | 02/16/05
Let's not forget  dave95 | 02/15/05
Yes, Thank you FireFox Developers  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
give us standards compliance or who cares?  neddo | 02/15/05
You gotta be kidding!!  BobSchlesinger_z | 02/16/05
Yes but....  nucrash | 02/16/05
Why go with the flow?  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
Go with the MS flow???  BC1980 | 02/16/05
Did You know...................  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
Insignificant  BobSchlesinger_z | 02/16/05
Who Cares?  zclayton2 | 02/16/05
IE7  ihaq1 | 02/16/05
Actions, not words  drpadiyar | 02/16/05
MSFT Execution FUM-BLE  Chad_z | 02/16/05
So, I guess corporations don't get a Secure Browser...  BitTwiddler | 02/16/05
Rolling out SP 2.  Anton Philidor | 02/16/05
" Is Microsoft updating IE because of FireFox?"  BitTwiddler | 02/16/05
a simple translation  sadchild | 02/16/05
Browser wars are back!  interlocutor | 02/16/05
IE divorced from Windows  AHUTT | 02/16/05
Browser Wars Part 2 : Return Of Mozilla....Mozilla Will Win  itanalyst | 02/16/05
Where have you been for the last 30 years?  BC1980 | 02/16/05
Mac compatability question  davidkapl | 02/16/05
As long as firefox keeps updating I keep firefox  GreatInca | 02/16/05
IE7  luc.henderieckx@... | 02/16/05
We the people need the competition not M$ (nt)  bob@... | 02/16/05
Microsoft had no choice  donpar | 02/16/05
A Better IE 7 ??  rlink@... | 02/16/05
firefox and new explorer  elvee | 02/16/05
What do you think?  gaelicfog@... | 02/16/05
The alpha and omega of Firefox - the realizations of a Firefox enthusiast  jtrippel@... | 02/16/05
True, True-but wait!  Michauxii | 02/16/05
Why Firefox?  jackjack5 | 02/16/05
Same engine, different software  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
Sorry, Charlie  macbill | 02/16/05
IE Update, Huh?  Pacis | 02/16/05
MS left the doors open and sponsors hacking in order to be needed...  Michauxii | 02/16/05
FireFox  anthony13282juno.com | 02/16/05
Sorry about your luck sad (nt)  bob@... | 02/16/05
Microsoft IE Upgrade  edjcox@... | 02/16/05
Tired of M$? Come over to the Mac Side happy  NRecob | 02/16/05
Re: Tired of M$? Come over to the Mac Side happy  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Re: Re: Tired of M$? Come over to the Mac Side happy  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Nah man...  d00fuss | 02/17/05
....debut ahead of plans..Hehehehehe  jhmiller | 02/16/05
Talk Back  TreeSlayer | 02/16/05
I don't care  Altern_z | 02/16/05
Who cares about MS?  Sonic20 | 02/16/05
Microsoft IE Update  LewisMP | 02/16/05
Microsoft's new browser update  tropical | 02/16/05
MS updating IE  saflyboy | 02/16/05
Tried Firefox, DIDN'T LIKE IT  johnp@... | 02/16/05
Re: Tried Firefox, DIDN'T LIKE IT  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
What's not to like  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
Could you be specific?  CobraA1 | 02/16/05
So what?  danag42@... | 02/16/05
Firefox  clamraker13@... | 02/16/05
Internet Explorer  swgoldwire | 02/16/05
What else is new and who cares...  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Upgrade or Crippleware?  mkrupsky@... | 02/16/05
Re: Upgrade or Crippleware?  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Windohs update from Firefox in Linux, lmao!  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Tight Integration = Security Flaws  paulredmond59 | 02/16/05
for split to IE & Micros~1 Windoze :  composer@... | 02/16/05
Very suspicous things with IE in 2k...  MepisLINUXuser | 02/16/05
Firefox cause the update @ MS?  JohnMinn | 02/16/05
dont act blonde?  20079090@... | 02/16/05
Too little to late  jrepin | 02/17/05
IE "Update"  BrtRbrtsN@... | 02/17/05
IE, Firefox or Opera That is the question  legal1 | 02/17/05
Pigs can fly given sufficient thrust  bob@... | 02/17/05
..because of Firefox? Don't make me laugh  Jazhawk | 02/17/05
I Love an Underdog!  TomBarclay | 02/17/05
Irony!  wresnick | 02/18/05
IE update  bobbya12@... | 02/17/05
Trust them again? NO WAY  maxxie | 02/17/05
It won't make any difference to us  Mr Shaun Warburton | 02/18/05
As good a response as any I have read  joekunzman | 02/18/05
XP service pack 3  Ogandydancer | 02/18/05
You are exactly right  wresnick | 02/18/05
What about the other 80% of the market  GeoMac | 02/18/05
Does it really matter?  Winfan | 02/19/05
All to play for  praxis22 | 02/19/05
Firefox  jelaine2000 | 02/19/05
IE upgrade versus Firefox  tfuller1@... | 02/20/05
You tried firefox?  M.Fridholm | 02/20/05
IE Update  chuck5406@... | 02/20/05
gates gives away IE for free  wexwimpy@... | 08/05/05
updatine IE  wlinda | 02/23/05
IE7?  sbarringer@... | 03/14/05
Im glad microsoft is thinking of security  RPerkins | 03/16/05
Didn't MS say IE was so tightly integrated it could NOT be removed?  HypnoToad | 07/27/05
Why is it  wexwimpy@... | 07/29/05

What do you think?

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