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Here's What I Believe
I believe that the browsers should follow whatever the standard says. That's not to say that you can't innovate ... but if you deviate from the standard, it should be noted clearly.

So, if the standards says colons, use colons.
If it says use equal signs, use equal signs.
If it says that either are equivalent, then that's the way it is.

Otherwise, you have an odd situation. Let's say that the technology standard says colons. But I write my own browser that uses colons ... and I sneak in an equals sign too because it does make sense. Now, my browser catches on because it's pretty good ... and so I write a development environment too. And that catches on too because of the integration with my own browser, which makes development easier.

But in the code that is generated from my development tool, let's say I stick in the equal signs instead of the standard colon.

So now, because I have a very popular browser and development combo, I claim that the rest of the world is broken. In a very real way, I believe that is what Microsoft has done. And if that's compiled with with thousands of features across many vendors (yes, Sun and IBM do it too) ... well, you have the current state of the Internet.

I don't like all of the standards ... many, I don't agree with (more so with SQL standards than HTML standards). But they should still be respected to allow my systems to be as flexible as I can write them.

Just my two cents. happy
Posted by: coffeenite   Posted on: 11/04/04 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Good article.  htotten | 11/04/04
No big deal...  Jomo_z | 11/04/04
Yes, John is right here, we need to lose the religion.  DonnieBoy | 11/04/04
Use ActiveX to Log In?  nucrash | 11/05/04
ActiveX  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/05/04
IE and IQ.  Vily Clay | 11/06/04
lots of businesses NEED ActiveX: care to elaborate?  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
What is all the hubbub Bub?  Squawkbox | 11/04/04
But in many cases..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Dohhhh! I knew that. I need to engage brain before opening mouth.  Squawkbox | 11/04/04
Why? Limits the number of posts.  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
I will take that in advisement (NT)  Squawkbox | 11/04/04
John, I agree with just about everything you have to say..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Not sure what the point is here  IT_User | 11/04/04
Re:Not sure what the point is here  d_jedi | 11/04/04
not worth the trouble?  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Not All Web Developers  timoute | 11/04/04
Oh contraire!  htotten | 11/04/04
Financial institutions  webranger47 | 11/04/04
Here, here . . .  Sheeva | 11/05/04
My Banks work fine with FireFox  chemist109 | 11/08/04
Et touche'!  AbsolutelyNot | 11/08/04
I think the # of users is moot  voska | 11/04/04
Barrier of Entry  frgough@... | 11/04/04
O.O.  htotten | 11/04/04
Conclusion, again.  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
I know, I know...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Writing Style  edufx | 11/04/04
incomplete or improperly-used HTML  greatwhitepine | 11/04/04
Why make web developers jobs harder than needs be?  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Funny!  greatwhitepine | 11/04/04
Its not hard.  vdraken | 11/04/04
The difference is..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Uh ... No.  coffeenite | 11/04/04
I know what I coded..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Uh ... No.  coffeenite | 11/04/04
I think you're right..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
I Tried It With IE -- Guess What?  coffeenite | 11/04/04
Interesting..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Here's What I Believe  coffeenite | 11/04/04
Good point..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
That all depends ...  coffeenite | 11/04/04
Re: that all depends..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Re: I know what I coded..  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
So?  vdraken | 11/04/04
Re: So?  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Doesnt change anything.  vdraken | 11/04/04
I agree..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Because....  NarGemini | 11/07/04
How far will you take it?  lengua99 | 11/08/04
Most site authors are not programmers  jrerickson | 11/05/04
HTML is a DTD of SGML  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Inferrence leads to error  Robert Crocker | 11/04/04
And the...  alanc5 | 11/04/04
Clever?  greatwhitepine | 11/04/04
You're right and you're wrong  seosamh_z | 11/04/04
you're all wrong  Jamik | 11/04/04
What are you talking about  seosamh_z | 11/05/04
I have to agree...  greatwhitepine | 11/05/04
Not sure what the point is here  IT_User | 11/04/04
Responsibility  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
The point is ....  LGLisle | 11/04/04
Flocking  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
its more than html  splinter_z | 11/04/04
Not Caring ... or Not Knowing  ChuTw | 11/04/04
Marketing FireFox  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
That's Why Standards Are Important  coffeenite | 11/04/04
Developers ARE writing to one standard  IT_User | 11/04/04
To a point  seosamh_z | 11/04/04
Huh?  coffeenite | 11/04/04
Explained  seosamh_z | 11/04/04
Maybe they should get off their lazy A$$'s  middle of nowhere | 11/04/04
Clarification needed  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
Clarification  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Do sites find workarounds...  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
In my experience, yes..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
Some Clarification  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Optimism  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
You are scaring me John!  greatwhitepine | 11/05/04
Standards and alternatives to IE  Anton Philidor | 11/05/04
Standards and extentions  az firebird | 11/05/04
Willfully backward  Anton Philidor | 11/05/04
Wrong.  NarGemini | 11/06/04
John, I really liked your article...  jim_oflaherty_jr | 11/04/04
Hey, Don't you mean 6%... and "IE's not a browser app"...  el1jones | 11/04/04
Margin of error.  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
ms is not concerned  splinter_z | 11/04/04
Hype Machine.  alanc5 | 11/04/04
Why on Earth  Roger Ramjet | 11/04/04
Why Not Use <ocument.All() ? Easy ...  coffeenite | 11/04/04
splinter  splinter_z | 11/04/04
Get used to it  voska | 11/04/04
hmmm  iyerganeshram | 11/04/04
You may not agree with it..  vdraken | 11/04/04
I Agree  coffeenite | 11/04/04
Regarding Sloppy  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
The funny thing is..  Patrick Jones | 11/04/04
Regarding Regading Sloppy  coffeenite | 11/05/04
Sloppy vs Syntax  az firebird | 11/05/04
Sloppy IS bad!  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
You haven't got a glue  Tuntematon | 11/08/04
Prima Donna vs. Pragmatist  jaoifalkjsdao | 11/05/04
html is only part of the story  splinter_z | 11/04/04
Use IE. Be my guest. Don't call me to remove your Spyware...  BitTwiddler | 11/04/04
Agreed My Brother....  itanalyst | 11/04/04
I use IE and NEVER get Spyware  DalyDose | 11/05/04
Tell them to fix it!  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
Standards  openMind | 11/04/04
Re: Standard  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Ooops...  Fred Fredrickson | 11/04/04
Rejectionist  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
Oh, Anton...  Fred Fredrickson | 11/07/04
Extended  Anton Philidor | 11/08/04
IE's market share...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
How do they know???  DalyDose | 11/05/04
properly layer your software John  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Some Musings  Roger Ramjet | 11/04/04
Problem using frames?  Robert Crocker | 11/04/04
Re: Frames  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
No  Robert Crocker | 11/05/04
Have you filed a bug report?  rpmyers1 | 11/04/04
Sigh . . .  DJGibbon | 11/04/04
i agree  splinter_z | 11/04/04
height: 100%;  sidesh0w | 11/04/04
Re: Height  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
re: height  eLurker | 11/04/04
site with some examples  eLurker | 11/04/04
that's.........  todbran@... | 11/04/04
Please refer to W3C doc before you comment such things  wolfding | 11/08/04
Re[2]: Height  sidesh0w | 11/08/04
Translations  whisperycat | 11/04/04
While we're discussing web browsers..  d_jedi | 11/04/04
quickly  shadowjk | 11/05/04
Always good for a laugh.......95%?...Sure.....  LazLong | 11/04/04
So, Windows isn't in the 90%'s anymore?  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
So you want proof?  Fred Fredrickson | 11/04/04
Proof???  DalyDose | 11/05/04
I was speaking of OS sales from OEM's  LazLong | 11/05/04
w3c's opinion on your code...  xactoguy | 11/04/04
Yes, but being right does not mean you win.  DonnieBoy | 11/04/04
Yes, but which deviation?  shadowjk | 11/05/04
I think I see your problem?  B.O.F.H. | 11/04/04
I disagree.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 11/08/04
Proprietary vs Open Standards  doc_savage | 11/04/04
Missed the point  seosamh_z | 11/04/04
Make Full Support for Industry Standards a Priority  derek.berube@... | 11/05/04
Functionality vs. security  Michael Kelly | 11/04/04
Scratching head...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Also scratching head  Michael Kelly | 11/05/04
Reason we are both scratching heads  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/05/04
I understand that  Michael Kelly | 11/05/04
Why can't I ever remember that ZDNet rewrote the rules on html (NT)  Michael Kelly | 11/05/04
apparently not 100% valid html.  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
as a developer, I dont want 10 browsers in the market  davecazz | 11/04/04
Doesn't mean you have to test all 10  John L. Ries | 11/04/04
What??  NarGemini | 11/06/04
To draw reasonable conclussions  michael-t | 11/04/04
Woo hoo.  christophilus | 11/04/04
and a deaf person can read it ok?  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Yeah, right  yosemite91 | 01/14/07
Portable Firefox...Check It Out!!  itanalyst | 11/04/04
A protable non-standards compliant browser? No thanks.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
An Overbloated Piece Of Crap That Causes Malicous Harm To My Computer???  itanalyst | 11/04/04
Let me explain it for you then.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
Let me explain it for you then.  AmusedAtItAll | 11/04/04
Ah, ever the lack of skill...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
More compliant than IE 6  CobraA1 | 11/04/04
Very interesting posts indeed.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
I'll Take A Little Incompatibility Anyday  itanalyst | 11/04/04
Ah, unless of course it's MS, then it's WHINE TIME.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
bitty is correct  AmusedAtItAll | 11/04/04
FF is the best thing for IE users  Richard Flude | 11/04/04
Stop WHINING  JasonL31 | 11/07/04
I can agree with you.  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
Version numbers don't mean a thing  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
from what i can tell  eLurker | 11/04/04
Good standards, bad standards, doesn't really matter.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
ok, but my point is  eLurker | 11/04/04
I think No_Ax's point is...  Michael Kelly | 11/04/04
i think  eLurker | 11/04/04
No, you seem to be trying to avoid the real issue.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/04
No, you seem to be trying to avoid understanding the real issue  hillrunr | 11/04/04
it seems  eLurker | 11/04/04
None so blind...  Fred Fredrickson | 11/05/04
"I am not an HTML guy" giving HTML advice??  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
Amaya compliance...  RDry01 | 11/05/04
I have my doubts about his test page  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
What "Standard"???  DalyDose | 11/05/04
It's all a matter of degree  Fred Fredrickson | 11/04/04
100% valid HTML???  mmings | 11/04/04
Amen To That!  itanalyst | 11/04/04
Couldn't have said it better!  zaine_ridling | 11/04/04
Netscape  gaelicfog@... | 11/04/04
Firefox *is* Netscape  John L. Ries | 11/04/04
Firefox, bah humbug  cryan@... | 11/04/04
Sounds like a settings issue  AbsolutelyNot | 11/08/04
w3c....  jrtotten | 11/04/04
It's just bad  dolph0291 | 11/04/04
Browser  betelgeux | 11/04/04
Then use an add-in that gives you tabbed browsing.  Anton Philidor | 11/05/04
I quess Linux users need to install IE then , HUH!  mpjbo | 11/04/04
Fine...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Re: Fine  John L. Ries | 11/04/04
The mythical 95% rule...  Fred Fredrickson | 11/04/04
Pick your source of stats.  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
Credibility is the issue  Fred Fredrickson | 11/05/04
AOL uses IE only  Anton Philidor | 11/05/04
Stats are misleading  IT Scion | 11/08/04
IE's market share...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Once again very funny...  LazLong | 11/05/04
Choose your poison  Fred Fredrickson | 11/05/04
bah humbug to IE crap!  johnlb2002 | 11/04/04
CSS vs table + try these links  ivanii | 11/04/04
Works fine in Safari  middle of nowhere | 11/04/04
Of course, but not in IE  ivanii | 11/04/04
I don't agree  todbran@... | 11/04/04
Agree and Disagree  DalyDose | 11/05/04
Simple economics  middle of nowhere | 11/04/04
Not so simple...  DalyDose | 11/05/04
MS IE like SUV  TrustMe_z | 11/04/04
Why not Maxthon?  Mozzi Carl04 | 11/04/04
Maxthon is IE.  Anton Philidor | 11/04/04
Convinced me  rthn | 11/04/04
Firefox  littlebrochureco@... | 11/04/04
Problem with viewing bah humbug  euro_z | 11/04/04
Sorry fixed problem for you  euro_z | 11/04/04
CSS  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
dive in and fix it, quit complaining  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Let me get this straight...  Brian@... | 11/04/04
Hype and Open Source Shouldn't Mix  jfsayre@... | 11/04/04
What a laugh  Richard Flude | 11/04/04
Re:  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
Re: Re:  Richard Flude | 11/04/04
HTML  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/04/04
It's the attitutude!  BMoon | 11/05/04
You say attitude, I say I'm right  Richard Flude | 11/06/04
Now HTML is elevated to a desktop application development language  Richard Flude | 11/06/04
And what's with this  Richard Flude | 11/06/04
in my opinion jc is fragged by richard  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
95% ?  BMoon | 11/07/04
Whilst you're not legally required to write for the chinese  Richard Flude | 11/07/04
Learn to code!  Sanguinemoon | 11/04/04
so mozilla.org cant code?  jimk_z | 11/04/04
oops  jimk_z | 11/04/04
I know how you feel  Richard Flude | 11/04/04
Another add-on.  Anton Philidor | 11/05/04
Your implication is wrong  wresnick | 11/05/04
Easy fix  wresnick | 11/05/04
so mozilla.org cant code?  pjones | 11/05/04
Good article...GOOD POINTS  jimk_z | 11/04/04
huh?  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
Firefox isn't Netscape  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
Well, rather, Netscape is Mozilla, then  ischorr | 11/06/04
I just hate it when people say they found probems but can't list one  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
eh  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
Bah-humbug page isn't compliant  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
Wish I could edit posts  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
More than technology  Falconer_z | 11/05/04
tha testpage  M.Fridholm | 11/05/04
Yes/No/Cancel dialogs  cliffmcc_z | 11/05/04
Spin  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/05/04
Laughable  DJGibbon | 11/14/04
I love FF!!!  adkmom | 11/05/04
It's still a Preview Release  bruzr | 11/05/04
Bah, Humbug test link.  bigcheese48 | 11/05/04
Re: Bah, Humbug test link.  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
Opera & Netscape?  rwire@... | 11/05/04
FireFox---- WHY?  Golfer_z | 11/05/04
Yes, why?  ischorr | 11/06/04
Firefox, Opera, IE  jtimouri | 11/05/04
not W3C valid  Pearly37 | 11/05/04
Again...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/05/04
no it isn't, check with the the validator  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Good Article...I agree  pmcm | 11/05/04
care to point to the pages  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
What about Mozilla?  bj70117@... | 11/05/04
Nice article with many good points!  jrr@... | 11/05/04
Firefox  gmunn4283@... | 11/05/04
Re: Firefox  MigrateNow | 11/06/04
Compatible Replacement  esblake | 11/05/04
Good and close but . . .  sher1 | 11/05/04
Firefox Not My Bad  denkidr | 11/05/04
"Embrace and Extend"  howcheng | 11/05/04
Check Netscape 7.02  morgan@... | 11/05/04
Well put.  bertb | 11/05/04
Final conclusion on "bah-humbug" "test" page  CobraA1 | 11/05/04
wont work  eLurker | 11/05/04
Who's In Charge?  ambrose | 11/05/04
What I like about Firefox  chasmagc@... | 11/05/04
Harsh, but true  joemacd | 11/05/04
Harsh, and false.  wresnick | 11/05/04
I see where you're coming from, but...  M.Fridholm | 11/05/04
FF has more issues than that but....  IT Scion | 11/05/04
Even so...  lauszy@... | 11/05/04
why write it down?  amccoy@... | 11/05/04
long memories...  john.gruber@... | 11/05/04
CSS Trick (yours?)  skeeter_z | 11/05/04
no  eLurker | 11/05/04
FireFox Bah Humbug  pjones | 11/05/04
Fire Fix...  esblake | 11/05/04
bah?  sapper_z | 11/05/04
Remember IE once forced changes on us ...  VSexton | 11/05/04
if yr "an old HTML hand-coder" ...  edgarde_z | 11/05/04
You complain about standards...  buran | 11/05/04
What If you coded correctly for Moz/FF would it not work in IE also..?  LazLong | 11/05/04
possibly not  eLurker | 11/05/04
Way off regarding firefox  pearsonz | 11/05/04
Standard  Update victim | 11/05/04
Re:  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/05/04
"Standardization around one product is natural in software"  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
MS standards vs. W3C standards  AbsolutelyNot | 11/08/04
Firefox  Donn_z | 11/05/04
When MS offers IE for Linux, at no charge...  Rick S._z | 11/05/04
Your problem is Bugzilla # 235558  Rick S._z | 11/05/04
A web dominated by Microsoft is not a good thing!  dezydery | 11/06/04
Re:  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/06/04
save money?  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
As noted...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/07/04
yes, but  eLurker | 11/07/04
Re:  pasta_z | 11/07/04
Re: Re:  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/07/04
Firefox  zubenal@... | 11/06/04
What's standard  B. Dube | 11/06/04
You seem not to understand ...  zapyon | 11/06/04
Understanding  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/06/04
in that case there would be no html  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
You misunderstand  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/07/04
re:  eLurker | 11/07/04
Come on Carroll  Tim Patterson | 11/06/04
Small detail ommission  wanderson | 11/06/04
JC  meetwo | 11/06/04
IE support  JDThompson | 11/06/04
Re: IE Support  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/06/04
bent over BACKWARDS to ensure old apps worked under Windows XP  hipparchus2000 | 11/06/04
Re: bent  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/07/04
Mac World and Win32API  hipparchus2000 | 11/07/04
Breaking Millions of Web Sites  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 11/08/04
I agree  deadpan227 | 11/10/04
Explorer. bah humbug  laerien | 11/06/04
What version of IE?  adodo | 11/06/04
Mac IE  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/06/04
Listen to yourself  Richard Flude | 11/06/04
Mac IE...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/07/04
So to recap  Richard Flude | 11/08/04
John, just a point on the time is money thing  brand police | 11/15/04
If you don't know any Mac users who use IE...  escoles@... | 11/10/04
The point being...  bsmojver | 11/06/04
idiot  dantrevino | 11/06/04
I'm sorry...but I must say.  thecompanyblue | 11/07/04
re : Firefox, bah humbug  JasonL31 | 11/07/04
Admit it John, you're an MS fan boy  betelgeuse68 | 11/07/04
Implemented features in IE  pasta_z | 11/07/04
Spyware/Adware threats are the fault of the USER  politik | 11/07/04
No, it's not.  escoles@... | 11/10/04
Wrong  gk_ | 11/07/04
Business perspective  WhoIsDaMan | 11/07/04
Re: Business  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/07/04
He said "10% or more"!  CobraA1 | 11/07/04
well...  M.Fridholm | 11/08/04
Another Weakness of Firefox  p.crawford@... | 11/07/04
XP takes most of that space  CobraA1 | 11/07/04
Cobra has it right but it's worse than that  M.Fridholm | 11/08/04
I'm confused.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 11/08/04
That's funny!  dingletec_z | 12/25/04
Another tub-thumping rally cry for MS hegemony  whisperycat | 11/08/04
Running a business with web applications  g2shops | 11/08/04
You've been mislead  CobraA1 | 11/08/04
Wait a minute.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 11/08/04
The Check Test  imforumman | 11/08/04
Re: Check  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/09/04
Sorry John...  dingletec_z | 12/25/04
TCP/IP  Brent R Brian | 11/08/04
It's about the consequences  tomike@... | 11/08/04
Frothing Rage?  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 11/08/04
Re:  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/09/04
Open Standards & KHTML v. Gecko v. Opera  escoles@... | 11/10/04
Point Missed by Many  Deacon336 | 11/08/04
Point understood, just laughed at  Richard Flude | 11/08/04
Conforming to non-standards  ruskyz@... | 11/08/04
A couple of comments  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 11/08/04
You're being overselective: IE creates problems too...  leechman | 11/08/04
If you'd just use an iframe, it would work everywhere.  escoles@... | 11/10/04
Firefox, No Problems  MrSteveO | 11/10/04
Firefox bah humbug  lazyj1@... | 11/10/04
Firefox bah humbug  lazyj1@... | 11/10/04
Firefox vs. I.E.  edmatarrese@... | 11/11/04
I hate to break the bad news  M.Fridholm | 11/12/04
Finally, an actual review  dman65 | 11/12/04
Hmmm  M.Fridholm | 11/12/04
Not a review really  M.Fridholm | 11/12/04
Darn  M.Fridholm | 11/12/04
rubbish  57js | 11/14/04
security security security  anujit | 11/14/04
security security security  anujit | 11/14/04
Been using it for about a year...  2cooldad | 11/19/04
Why Firefox?  vince7 | 11/19/04
Not really, but...  M.Fridholm | 11/20/04
This article loses all credibility  thxmadness@... | 11/21/04
You still don't get it.  george_ou | 11/26/04
No it is you who miss the point  M.Fridholm | 11/28/04
But IE prints many webpages wrongly  Wm. Brown | 11/29/04
tables are dead  fryweed | 12/09/04
IE,Firefox etc.  Psyber | 12/13/04
A Better Firefox Fix?  tpavlic_z | 12/20/04
IE sets the standard  dingletec_z | 12/25/04
Safari  kyussmondo | 03/28/07

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