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Microsoft need to control *ALL* computer for DRM to work
Just got to point out a huge flaw in your reasoning here.

Even if a PC is locked down with the OS, what is to stop someone acquiring the software (or the OS) and performing the examination on a non locked down machine?

If we ever got to the stage where Windows is locked down that tightly what is to stop someone getting a Windows CD, which *must* contain the binaries that the CPU understands or a binary that obtains further binaries and running binary level reverse engineering on it from a non restricted machine such as Linux or BSD?

The only real way to prevent it is to some how lock it down at the chip level and even then the secrets would need to be impossible to capture.

Theoretically as the chips are supposed to be deterministic if you can anayliser it in enough detail you can even grab keys out of hardware. Problem is finding the tools that can do that, not even sure they have been invented yet. But they *will* come.

You can not give somebody access to something and expect it to be secure.

There is always the analoge hole! Ah but HDCP was meant to prevent that. They have however overlooked onje channel that they have not secured yet. ... The channel from the screen to my eyes. I'd like to see them protect that one! What are you going to do fit decryption chips in the opticasl nerver or something?



Of course there is the theory that DRM can work, and it can, depending on how you define "work". If the purpose of DRM is to prevent copying then it can't "work". If it is meant to stop non-skilled people from copying then it is unlikely to work, availablilty of cracks to the DRM is too eaqsy to spread. If the purpose of DRM is to protect companies from competing with you then in countries like the USA it does "work". Why do you think the Zune win't play music from iTunes? Microsoft can break Apple DRM and make the Zune play it, but USA law prohibits such an attack. Thus DRM has worked, if the intention was to protect Apples distribution channel.
Posted by: Someguy2   Posted on: 06/07/07 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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According To No_Axe It Will Work  itanalyst | 06/06/07
He's a clown and not much else  DonRupertBitByte | 06/06/07
Oh my, another wanna be fan!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/06/07
fans?  X41 | 06/06/07
We Really Should Stop Responding To You  IAHawkeye | 06/07/07
Mostly Harmless...  Wolfie2K3 | 06/10/07
You don't need to find his posts . . .  critic-at-arms | 06/06/07
Why DRM won't ever work  Loverock Davidson | 06/06/07
Puh-LEEZE!!!  James T. Kirk | 06/06/07
But was he actually that amazing?  GuidingLight | 06/06/07
Of course I saw it.  James T. Kirk | 06/06/07
Wow!  Loverock Davidson | 06/06/07
This is tranya  tic swayback | 06/06/07
So, in other words...  Zeppo9191 | 06/06/07
Not really  James T. Kirk | 06/06/07
Scotty didn't know what he was doing?  RS9 | 06/06/07
Spot on, Bravo!  Technocrat@... | 06/06/07
DRM and OS  NonZealot | 06/06/07
I don't know about that  voska | 06/06/07
If the hardware turns you on, you should try the OS  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 06/06/07
I'd have no problem if it played games  voska | 06/07/07
Uh.. News flash...  Wolfie2K3 | 06/10/07
How does that boost hardware  voska | 09/17/07
Me Too  donthetech | 06/08/07
DRM doesn't have to work...  A.Sinic | 06/06/07
The DRM in pay TV is the easiest to beat  voska | 06/06/07
Honesty  allthingscode | 06/07/07
Why refuse to build DRM?  tic swayback | 06/06/07
It's called following the money  MyLord | 06/06/07
DRM requires that MS have *COMPLETE* control of your computer  Knorthern Knight | 06/06/07
Even those get hacked  voska | 06/06/07
Very true...  ju1ce | 06/06/07
Even removing that ability won't always work  Leria | 06/08/07
Microsoft need to control *ALL* computer for DRM to work  Someguy2 | 06/07/07
Let's see how this goes over....  tobias2143@... | 06/06/07
It's not so much  James T. Kirk | 06/06/07
Disliking DRM does not mean condoning piracy  tic swayback | 06/06/07
Re: Let's see how this goes over....  none none | 06/06/07
I agree  tobias2143@... | 06/06/07
Uhm...  ju1ce | 06/06/07
The Problem  tobias2143@... | 06/06/07
Although true...  ju1ce | 06/06/07
copies  tobias2143@... | 06/06/07
Don't forget about the Levi in Canada  voska | 06/06/07
Let's try and not make this a Canada vs US debate...  ju1ce | 06/06/07
A principle was missed  Jambalaya Breath | 06/08/07
Where is the hypocrisy?  voska | 06/06/07
The hiprocracy of it  vger_z | 06/08/07
handouts?  dave95. | 06/06/07
DRM to me (if you compare it to a house)  ju1ce | 06/06/07
Good analogy  chas_2 | 06/06/07
Let's stick with the house analogy  HouseOfZen | 06/06/07
All I wanna do  CobraA1 | 06/07/07
Well written  Stonebranch | 06/06/07
Thanks !  JeremyAllison | 06/06/07
Obviously M$ SMB secrets  Roger Ramjet | 06/06/07
Consumers don't pay for content  --GJ-- at csi ottawa dot ca | 06/06/07
Not True at all  voska | 06/06/07
Spot on  tic swayback | 06/06/07
No, you do - you buy an INSTANCE of the content  chas_2 | 06/06/07
If I buy an INSTANCE of the content:  XweAponX | 06/08/07
What the heck is with this CENSORING?  XweAponX | 06/08/07
Tangible vs Intangible  pj_mouse | 06/11/07
let them eat cake  vger_z | 06/08/07
What consumer pay for:  XweAponX | 06/08/07
The assumption is what is ment by work  Altotus | 06/06/07
A question  tobias2143@... | 06/06/07
Here's my DRM password  Dave_Friedel | 06/06/07
DNA  Dave_Friedel | 06/06/07
Why?  Altotus | 06/06/07
busniess as usual  Altotus | 06/06/07
One way  maschwab@... | 06/06/07
Too easy to hack  voska | 06/06/07
huh?  coverlt@... | 06/06/07
Re: One way  none none | 06/06/07
Star Trek and Underpants Gnomes - Awesome!  dvanlier | 06/06/07
Re: Star Trek and Underpants Gnomes - Awesome!  ladyscifi | 06/06/07
DRM easily removed  henrystahle@... | 06/06/07
Still...  ju1ce | 06/06/07
Which is why we have to get back to basics:  XweAponX | 06/08/07
HDMI/HDCP  donthetech | 06/06/07
Yeah Superscam  ParadigmOdyssey | 06/06/07
fault  donthetech | 06/06/07
Too Bad:  XweAponX | 06/08/07
Poo  donthetech | 06/10/07
here's a drm free movie site  berkokid | 06/06/07
here's a drm free movie site  berkokid | 06/06/07
DRM, no. Traceability, yes...  stormculture | 06/06/07
traceable printer  vger_z | 06/08/07
Amen!  chas_2 | 06/06/07
Just Give Me a Receipt  ParadigmOdyssey | 06/06/07
An obvious STAR TREK comparison  Old Timer 8080 | 06/06/07
Why DRM will never work  Arkyn1 | 06/06/07
"people will think I'm crazy"  Ole Man | 06/06/07
Yeah, but  Arkyn1 | 06/07/07
Richooare!  Ole Man | 06/11/07
vendor license  vger_z | 06/08/07
Here's how it can work.  kraterz | 06/06/07
Output devices  tic swayback | 06/07/07
fit drm chips in people's ears and disable their existing audio nerves  stevey_d | 06/07/07
HDCP  donthetech | 06/07/07
DRM Won't work  drphilb | 06/07/07
DRM has NOTHING to do with copyright law or fair use  jmelnik | 06/07/07
I agree  coverlt@... | 06/07/07
Totally agreed  CobraA1 | 06/07/07
WRONG! DRM can and does work!  veritouch | 06/07/07
So what happens to the watermark if the customer...  mrlinux | 06/07/07
Water marks don't work  voska | 06/07/07
What if I die???  schlicht@... | 06/08/07
roflmffao  Bite Me_Ax_Moron | 06/07/07
Don't want it.  coverlt@... | 06/07/07
Right on  donthetech | 06/07/07
Sorry, doesn't work . . .  CobraA1 | 06/07/07
Ad oh, yeah, one more thing . . .  CobraA1 | 06/07/07
Another garage vendor with a magic product..  spammy_z | 06/07/07
I guess we just don't get it  TtfnJohn | 06/08/07
Don't make me laugh!!  donthetech | 06/07/07
Make Reading Illegal, Too?  lmenningen | 06/09/07
Once decrypted, always decrypted  eholley@... | 06/07/07
DRM  daveisageek@... | 06/07/07
DRM is for Pilfering From the Honest  lmenningen | 06/09/07
Defining the definition!  Ole Man | 06/11/07
DRM required by content vendors  spammy_z | 06/07/07
A pattern here  azazrael | 06/07/07
A pattern here  azazrael | 06/07/07
We've been selling DRM-free music since 1999  rfroberg | 06/08/07
Tech description of Encryption is dead wrong  Dave@... | 06/08/07
DRM requires 'thought control', and of course they know it  theendofhardware.com | 06/08/07
Thought Control  donthetech | 06/08/07
Scotty did beam down, and was a red shirt  databits@... | 06/08/07
DRM works -- and is good for creators  worldcat1 | 06/08/07
DRM  donthetech | 06/08/07
Studios dont really lose that much money to piracy  James29UK | 06/08/07
What about the average consumer?  korn33@... | 06/08/07
The cure for DRM blues  vger_z | 06/08/07
Cure  donthetech | 06/08/07
Ayup  ChMacQueen@... | 06/08/07
DRM wont work  vger_z | 06/08/07
With laws in place DRM should work in USA  reqadr@... | 06/08/07
Shyea, right, whatever.  odubtaig | 06/09/07
yeah, right  donthetech | 06/10/07
Those are $$$$$$$$$ signs  Ole Man | 06/11/07
DRM Good For Creators???  lmenningen | 06/09/07
Maybe smoking dope?  Ole Man | 06/11/07
Protect Medical Records?  technicmaniac | 06/10/07
A longish reply to Allison  robertweber | 06/13/07
A reply to "Bob" - DRM still does not work  CobraA1 | 06/13/07
DRM Works Fine in a Police State  hi@... | 07/16/07
RE: Why DRM won't ever work  Vesicant | 09/18/07
No license is needed  Teran | 09/18/07

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