Hey Google, look over shoulder at tv screen
Boot_Agnostic | 10/24/05
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Nice Idea, but good Lord I hope Google loses...
critique | 10/24/05
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If Google wins
voska | 10/24/05
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That's exactly what Google is doing
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Very Well Said
thirstydog@... | 10/25/05
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My only problem with this
rapson | 10/24/05
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Which is why it's funny...
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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I knew that was coming
rapson | 10/24/05
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But it's such a great setup line!
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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I see a difference
rapson | 10/24/05
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Is there a difference?
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Well...
rapson | 10/25/05
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It's up to a judge to decide
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Can't see the forest for the trees
NobodyHome | 10/24/05
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However
IT Scion | 10/24/05
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The libraries gave permission
voska | 10/24/05
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But...
Yensi717 | 10/24/05
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I don't get your point
voska | 10/24/05
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Google is NOT a library. The libray can not remove copyright.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
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Google doesn't have to be
voska | 10/24/05
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The library is irrelevant. Perhaps, so is copyright
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Don't forget Proxy servers
voska | 10/24/05
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Excerpting
bhartman36 | 10/24/05
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The libraries are not the copyright holders.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Your statement about Fair Use is not factually correct.
Root User | 10/24/05
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When they use the indexing argument it will weigh against Google.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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I'd like to see an example...
Root User | 10/24/05
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Don't worry I will come across one.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Why is that so wrong
voska | 10/24/05
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Voska and OSreinstall
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Opt-Out Indexing
bhartman36 | 10/24/05
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bhartmann--Both are opt out
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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This is not going to fly. Unless it is in the 9th circuit.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Osreinstall--quoting your link
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Also Robots.txt does stop it
voska | 10/24/05
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Copyright is opt in.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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No, actually, copyright is opt out
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Nice play on words.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Opt In doesn't work
voska | 10/24/05
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Opting isn't going to work anyway.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Of couse they wouldn't
voska | 10/24/05
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Sorry Osreinstall, my mistake
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Google versus Amazon
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Google verses everyone these days.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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I'm surprised Google Ads work at all
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Me too. A lot of people filter this stuff.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Amazon isn't really a "partner"
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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They are both.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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If you read the copyright law
voska | 10/24/05
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I don't think so.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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You're right on Fair Use
voska | 10/24/05
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Think of the consequences.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Interesting point
voska | 10/24/05
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And you're wrong on fair use
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Excluding libraries
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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It is a free country, Voska
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Nope Tic.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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But because it's a free country...
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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They have no choice though
voska | 10/24/05
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They'd pay the same price, actually
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Tic, I could sell direct to public like Dell.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Still wouldn't work
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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They would pay more.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Yeah and I can already photocopy books
voska | 10/24/05
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They wouldn't pay any more than you or I
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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they will pay a little more if the libraries are cut off by all publishers.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Again, how would you know?
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Common sense prediction.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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That would be a really stupid business move
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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On Content Owners
voska | 10/25/05
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Couple replies:
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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I don't think you'd ever find 100% consensus
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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100% is a difficult goal.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Which is why I think you won' see a boycott
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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You are right, Tic...
Root User | 10/25/05
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No, a library can NOT waive the copyright for a for profit.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
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Quit Trolling
voska | 10/24/05
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I was just going to say that
voska | 10/24/05
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Ownership
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Semantics
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Not really. Just more detailed.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Not according to the US Copyright Office
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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You must cipher things differently.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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I can't find the server
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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I can't find junk at times either.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Right of first sale
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Hmmmmmm.....
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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More semantics
tic swayback | 10/26/05
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Perhaps
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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We're just talking about one particular instance of the content
tic swayback | 10/26/05
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That is all it takes to wreck it.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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That one copy is still subject to copyright law
tic swayback | 10/26/05
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All copies are.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Amazon
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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Re: Amazon
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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Did you actually try a search?
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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I finally got it
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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You see much more than Google
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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Not always.
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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It's a different program, but...
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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Not quite Root.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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I think I am right here.
Root User | 10/26/05
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Quick correction...
Root User | 10/26/05
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No you are not
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Contradictory answer
tic swayback | 10/26/05
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Funny thing is, I have not seen a definition on the copyright office site.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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That's why I think this is a semantic argument
tic swayback | 10/26/05
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That's it
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Actually, I know I'm right on this one.
Root User | 10/26/05
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I don't think so root
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Semantic agreement?
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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Pretty much.
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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I wouldn't say it's weak
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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And we will find out
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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Probably true
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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This will be interesting.
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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Different purposes
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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Nope MS will obtain permission
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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I can't see that happening
tic swayback | 10/28/05
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I can
osreinstall | 10/28/05
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What you're missing in the big picture
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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See that's the funny thing
voska | 10/24/05
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That's exactly the plan
tic swayback | 10/24/05
|
   
I disagree
Trevor_G | 10/25/05
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Project Gutenberg is entirely Public Domain
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Opt out?
IT Scion | 10/24/05
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I don't agree
voska | 10/24/05
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IMO
IT Scion | 10/24/05
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Same
voska | 10/24/05
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What about Yahoo, MSN Search or Ask Jeeves?
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Another perspective
MoonTwist | 10/24/05
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The other side of the issue
Roger Ramjet | 10/24/05
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Excellent suggestion
rapson | 10/24/05
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Problem: Copyright extensions (and Fair Use)
Root User | 10/24/05
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Good idea if you're not in the US
voska | 10/24/05
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Google is doing this
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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I read it was life +90
voska | 10/24/05
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It's complicated
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Tree-Huggers for Googleizing Books (THGB)
Pye_z | 10/24/05
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Google is a for-profit company, they will lose this one.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
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I'm not sure...
rapson | 10/24/05
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Google is doing it to make a buck, plain and simple.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
|
  
Well, as you like to say...
rapson | 10/24/05
|
   
Do you feel the same way about search engines?
tic swayback | 10/24/05
|
    
There is no fear of lawsuit.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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One would hope not
voska | 10/24/05
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What if I start one?
tic swayback | 10/24/05
|
     
Fair use rulings are subjective.
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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Replace a few words there
tic swayback | 10/24/05
|
     
Google cannot spider a website that is password protected
osreinstall | 10/24/05
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We've had it happen to us
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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OSreistall, That's what I've been saying
voska | 10/25/05
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Plus...
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Because you let it, Tic
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Both are opt out systems. Why is one okay, but not the other?
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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How much income must the creative ones lose?
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Rapson was right, everything should be opt in
osreinstall | 10/25/05
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Copyright is opt out
voska | 10/25/05
|
     
Copyright is opt in
osreinstall | 10/25/05
|
     
Two responses, Osreinstall
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Some more back at you.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
|
     
Websites do not want to be free then
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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Contridiction City.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
|
     
Oh what a tangled web....
tic swayback | 10/25/05
|
     
Cobbed to the max.
osreinstall | 10/25/05
|
     
Business models on the catwalk
tic swayback | 10/26/05
|
     
More like a tightrope.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Not good enough
tic swayback | 10/26/05
|
     
Internet never was.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
|
     
I can't live without it
tic swayback | 10/26/05
|
     
I am getting to that point.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Well, maybe not everyone happy
tic swayback | 10/26/05
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There are always a few miserable holdouts.
osreinstall | 10/26/05
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Mutual respect
tic swayback | 10/27/05
|
     
That would be a good start.
osreinstall | 10/27/05
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That'll take another court ruling
tic swayback | 10/27/05
|
     
And so on and on.
osreinstall | 10/27/05
|
     
Not always
tic swayback | 10/27/05
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I would fight it.
osreinstall | 10/27/05
|
     
A lack of confidence
tic swayback | 10/28/05
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Greed vs Principal
osreinstall | 10/28/05
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Profit is not a disqualifier
tic swayback | 10/24/05
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Questions
Pye_z | 10/24/05
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RIAA Redux?
Rodney Davis | 10/24/05
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Except this isn't about a new revenue stream
voska | 10/24/05
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Don't have to sell the book to make money
Rodney Davis | 10/25/05
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Authors weigh in
tic swayback | 10/25/05
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"One copy out there is enough to destroy the economic value of a work ..."
markbn | 02/28/06
|