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My only problem with this
"...and Google is requiring copyright holders to opt out of the scanning process if they don't want their books in libraries to be searchable."

I still believe that opt-out is wrong in ALL CASES. No one should ever have to opt out of anything; everything should be opt-in. That applies here as well as in other areas - junk mail/spam, class-action lawsuits, and even union membership.

Carl Rapson
Posted by: rapson   Posted on: 10/24/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Hey Google, look over shoulder at tv screen  Boot_Agnostic | 10/24/05
Nice Idea, but good Lord I hope Google loses...  critique | 10/24/05
If Google wins  voska | 10/24/05
That's exactly what Google is doing  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Very Well Said  thirstydog@... | 10/25/05
My only problem with this  rapson | 10/24/05
Which is why it's funny...  tic swayback | 10/24/05
I knew that was coming  rapson | 10/24/05
But it's such a great setup line!  tic swayback | 10/24/05
I see a difference  rapson | 10/24/05
Is there a difference?  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Well...  rapson | 10/25/05
It's up to a judge to decide  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Can't see the forest for the trees  NobodyHome | 10/24/05
However  IT Scion | 10/24/05
The libraries gave permission  voska | 10/24/05
But...  Yensi717 | 10/24/05
I don't get your point  voska | 10/24/05
Google is NOT a library. The libray can not remove copyright.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
Google doesn't have to be  voska | 10/24/05
The library is irrelevant. Perhaps, so is copyright  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Don't forget Proxy servers  voska | 10/24/05
Excerpting  bhartman36 | 10/24/05
The libraries are not the copyright holders.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Your statement about Fair Use is not factually correct.  Root User | 10/24/05
When they use the indexing argument it will weigh against Google.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
I'd like to see an example...  Root User | 10/24/05
Don't worry I will come across one.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Why is that so wrong  voska | 10/24/05
Voska and OSreinstall  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Opt-Out Indexing  bhartman36 | 10/24/05
bhartmann--Both are opt out  tic swayback | 10/24/05
This is not going to fly. Unless it is in the 9th circuit.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Osreinstall--quoting your link  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Also Robots.txt does stop it  voska | 10/24/05
Copyright is opt in.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
No, actually, copyright is opt out  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Nice play on words.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Opt In doesn't work  voska | 10/24/05
Opting isn't going to work anyway.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Of couse they wouldn't  voska | 10/24/05
Sorry Osreinstall, my mistake  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Google versus Amazon  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Google verses everyone these days.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
I'm surprised Google Ads work at all  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Me too. A lot of people filter this stuff.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Amazon isn't really a "partner"  tic swayback | 10/25/05
They are both.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
If you read the copyright law  voska | 10/24/05
I don't think so.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
You're right on Fair Use  voska | 10/24/05
Think of the consequences.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Interesting point  voska | 10/24/05
And you're wrong on fair use  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Excluding libraries  tic swayback | 10/24/05
It is a free country, Voska  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Nope Tic.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
But because it's a free country...  tic swayback | 10/24/05
They have no choice though  voska | 10/24/05
They'd pay the same price, actually  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Tic, I could sell direct to public like Dell.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Still wouldn't work  tic swayback | 10/24/05
They would pay more.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Yeah and I can already photocopy books  voska | 10/24/05
They wouldn't pay any more than you or I  tic swayback | 10/24/05
they will pay a little more if the libraries are cut off by all publishers.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Again, how would you know?  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Common sense prediction.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
That would be a really stupid business move  tic swayback | 10/25/05
On Content Owners  voska | 10/25/05
Couple replies:  osreinstall | 10/25/05
I don't think you'd ever find 100% consensus  tic swayback | 10/25/05
100% is a difficult goal.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Which is why I think you won' see a boycott  tic swayback | 10/25/05
You are right, Tic...  Root User | 10/25/05
No, a library can NOT waive the copyright for a for profit.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
Quit Trolling  voska | 10/24/05
I was just going to say that  voska | 10/24/05
Ownership  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Semantics  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Not really. Just more detailed.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Not according to the US Copyright Office  tic swayback | 10/25/05
You must cipher things differently.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
I can't find the server  tic swayback | 10/25/05
I can't find junk at times either.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Right of first sale  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Hmmmmmm.....  osreinstall | 10/25/05
More semantics  tic swayback | 10/26/05
Perhaps  osreinstall | 10/26/05
We're just talking about one particular instance of the content  tic swayback | 10/26/05
That is all it takes to wreck it.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
That one copy is still subject to copyright law  tic swayback | 10/26/05
All copies are.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Amazon  tic swayback | 10/27/05
Re: Amazon  osreinstall | 10/27/05
Did you actually try a search?  tic swayback | 10/27/05
I finally got it  osreinstall | 10/27/05
You see much more than Google  tic swayback | 10/27/05
Not always.  osreinstall | 10/27/05
It's a different program, but...  tic swayback | 10/27/05
Not quite Root.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
I think I am right here.  Root User | 10/26/05
Quick correction...  Root User | 10/26/05
No you are not  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Contradictory answer  tic swayback | 10/26/05
Funny thing is, I have not seen a definition on the copyright office site.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
That's why I think this is a semantic argument  tic swayback | 10/26/05
That's it  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Actually, I know I'm right on this one.  Root User | 10/26/05
I don't think so root  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Semantic agreement?  tic swayback | 10/27/05
Pretty much.  osreinstall | 10/27/05
I wouldn't say it's weak  tic swayback | 10/27/05
And we will find out  osreinstall | 10/27/05
Probably true  tic swayback | 10/27/05
This will be interesting.  osreinstall | 10/27/05
Different purposes  tic swayback | 10/27/05
Nope MS will obtain permission  osreinstall | 10/27/05
I can't see that happening  tic swayback | 10/28/05
I can  osreinstall | 10/28/05
What you're missing in the big picture  tic swayback | 10/24/05
See that's the funny thing  voska | 10/24/05
That's exactly the plan  tic swayback | 10/24/05
I disagree  Trevor_G | 10/25/05
Project Gutenberg is entirely Public Domain  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Opt out?  IT Scion | 10/24/05
I don't agree  voska | 10/24/05
IMO  IT Scion | 10/24/05
Same  voska | 10/24/05
What about Yahoo, MSN Search or Ask Jeeves?  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Another perspective  MoonTwist | 10/24/05
The other side of the issue  Roger Ramjet | 10/24/05
Excellent suggestion  rapson | 10/24/05
Problem: Copyright extensions (and Fair Use)  Root User | 10/24/05
Good idea if you're not in the US  voska | 10/24/05
Google is doing this  tic swayback | 10/24/05
I read it was life +90  voska | 10/24/05
It's complicated  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Tree-Huggers for Googleizing Books (THGB)  Pye_z | 10/24/05
Google is a for-profit company, they will lose this one.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
I'm not sure...  rapson | 10/24/05
Google is doing it to make a buck, plain and simple.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/24/05
Well, as you like to say...  rapson | 10/24/05
Do you feel the same way about search engines?  tic swayback | 10/24/05
There is no fear of lawsuit.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
One would hope not  voska | 10/24/05
What if I start one?  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Fair use rulings are subjective.  osreinstall | 10/24/05
Replace a few words there  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Google cannot spider a website that is password protected  osreinstall | 10/24/05
We've had it happen to us  tic swayback | 10/25/05
OSreistall, That's what I've been saying  voska | 10/25/05
Plus...  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Because you let it, Tic  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Both are opt out systems. Why is one okay, but not the other?  tic swayback | 10/25/05
How much income must the creative ones lose?  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Rapson was right, everything should be opt in  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Copyright is opt out  voska | 10/25/05
Copyright is opt in  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Two responses, Osreinstall  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Some more back at you.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Websites do not want to be free then  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Contridiction City.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Oh what a tangled web....  tic swayback | 10/25/05
Cobbed to the max.  osreinstall | 10/25/05
Business models on the catwalk  tic swayback | 10/26/05
More like a tightrope.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Not good enough  tic swayback | 10/26/05
Internet never was.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
I can't live without it  tic swayback | 10/26/05
I am getting to that point.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Well, maybe not everyone happy  tic swayback | 10/26/05
There are always a few miserable holdouts.  osreinstall | 10/26/05
Mutual respect  tic swayback | 10/27/05
That would be a good start.  osreinstall | 10/27/05
That'll take another court ruling  tic swayback | 10/27/05
And so on and on.  osreinstall | 10/27/05
Not always  tic swayback | 10/27/05
I would fight it.  osreinstall | 10/27/05
A lack of confidence  tic swayback | 10/28/05
Greed vs Principal  osreinstall | 10/28/05
Profit is not a disqualifier  tic swayback | 10/24/05
Questions  Pye_z | 10/24/05
RIAA Redux?  Rodney Davis | 10/24/05
Except this isn't about a new revenue stream  voska | 10/24/05
Don't have to sell the book to make money  Rodney Davis | 10/25/05
Authors weigh in  tic swayback | 10/25/05
"One copy out there is enough to destroy the economic value of a work ..."  markbn | 02/28/06

What do you think?

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