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No way to determine prior art
To sum up:

1. Software is not disclosed and hence its impossible to determine prior art.

2. This leads to companies receiving patents for technology they didn't invent.

3. Defining software = technology leads to all sorts of dumb business process patents done in software, e.g. single click ordering, rating PCs to see if they can play games, etc. etc.

4. The closer the idea is to a true algorithm the closer it is to mathematics which can't be patented.


So they are the main problems (or have I missed one).
So if you invent a way to do X and you geneuinely want to protect your method (as opposed to block competition) then just don't release the code.

Its worked for decades, we've had all the advances in software during this time and only the US has had these patent play companies attacks.

What problem exactly is software patents supposed to fix? Microsoft's loss of market control?
Posted by: Nigel Johnstone   Posted on: 02/02/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Either way  Linux User 147560 | 02/01/05
Microsoft is loooong overdue..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
Which way  seosamh_z | 02/02/05
with a shovel, duh!  linuxoverwindows | 02/02/05
You have to ask?  Linux User 147560 | 02/02/05
time frame  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Did you fail to read the current  Linux User 147560 | 02/02/05
scared one  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Ain't gonna happen!  MacGeek2121 | 02/04/05
Oh...  Linux User 147560 | 02/04/05
Once again...  IT_User | 02/01/05
Good copy  seosamh_z | 02/02/05
Isn't there an independant...  Mack DaNife | 02/02/05
arbitrary zdnet MS throw-in  hickum | 02/01/05
IBM has MS down pat.  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Points  rapson | 02/02/05
er,... I think you missed my point.  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Clear(er)  rapson | 02/02/05
A lot of competitors have suffered far more than Microsoft  MacGeek2121 | 02/04/05
Linus hates patents because he does not invent.  pa2004 | 02/01/05
If you can point to *anything* in Linux "borrowed" from SCO...  Zogg | 02/02/05
Open source forever!!!!!!!!!!  yeminanthony@... | 02/02/05
no innovation?  seal101 | 02/02/05
You must not be a programmer.  pa2004 | 02/02/05
Apparently, you are not, either  rgafron@... | 02/02/05
I agree with pa2004  rkadowns | 02/02/05
You want to know the innovations?  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
P.S., OS/2 and Microsoft.  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Bravo!!  FreeBSD | 02/02/05
Not one thing  rkadowns | 02/02/05
Re: Not one thing (rkadowns)  The King's Servant | 02/03/05
sure, ms is innovative.  linuxoverwindows | 02/02/05
more open fud  osreinstall | 02/02/05
I checked  Update victim | 02/02/05
kernel-net explorer!  linuxoverwindows | 02/02/05
AI = Always Incomprehensible  Roger Ramjet | 02/02/05
RE: Linus hates patents  RParent | 02/02/05
If you say so  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
Shoulders of giants  Gregory.J.Bradley@... | 02/04/05
No way to determine prior art  Nigel Johnstone | 02/02/05
So close....  seosamh_z | 02/02/05
I think you missed the point  Nigel Johnstone | 02/02/05
er,... I think you missed his point. You wer so close, too.  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Keeping the code secret isn't enough.  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
But, Copyrights are to protect thought,  Update victim | 02/02/05
what's your point?  seal101 | 02/02/05
Why should anyone have a monopoly on an idea.  much2old | 02/02/05
patent wars  seal101 | 02/02/05
You are Correct  Progress_z | 02/02/05
Nothing Good About Software Patents  P. Douglas | 02/02/05
P. you rant along and ignore what small guys have said,  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Ouch, beautiful point!  NonZealot | 02/02/05
Goose and gander???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Except that patents are not necessarily here to stay...  Root User | 02/02/05
Whoa  rapson | 02/02/05
Won't be any...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
RIAA and MPAA  SantiagoCrespo | 02/02/05
Yup, truth can often be funny.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Keep looking, Diogenes  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
Excellent point  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
Ax? Certainly not the sharpest in the shed...  ab@... | 02/02/05
Patent check, patent balance  djohnson@... | 02/02/05
your point?  seal101 | 02/02/05
When you have lsot the debate, throw insults like a child.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
My Rebuttal  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
You call that a rebutal?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Well..  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
It was much better than yours..  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
trivial patents with prior art are the problem  hipparchus2000 | 02/02/05
My Rebuttal  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
P2P Software and Patents are Very Different  P. Douglas | 02/02/05
Small guys  Anti_Zealot | 02/04/05
another viewpoint  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Software patents are definitely more bad than good  dbman4088 | 02/04/05
Now or for ever?  pvn | 03/09/05
Open-source honchos trash software patents  Loverock Davidson | 02/02/05
The only people crying  rkadowns | 02/02/05
Well, and a few others  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
That figures  rkadowns | 02/02/05
Wow  ab@... | 02/02/05
To deny that these countries  rkadowns | 02/02/05
?  johnnyu | 02/02/05
Chicago School Socialists  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
They may be  Linux User 147560 | 02/02/05
Ahhh!  rkadowns | 02/02/05
From patents to health insurance  johnnyu | 02/02/05
any references?  seal101 | 02/02/05
Importance  tystoy45 | 02/02/05
What a DUMB headline...  BitTwiddler | 02/02/05
Doesn't it just desperately BECKON a raging flame war?  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
It does at that...  ab@... | 02/02/05
Maybe Washington is Listening  Progress_z | 02/02/05
Talk about a loaded statement.  IT Scion | 02/02/05
Hypocrits, gotta love 'em!  NonZealot | 02/02/05
This Microsoft obsession is damaging.  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
It's like...  rapson | 02/02/05
Kill  rkadowns | 02/02/05
Well...  rapson | 02/02/05
I program because I love it  voska | 02/02/05
Use BSD  rkadowns | 02/02/05
I program because I get paid to  Stewart Cannon | 02/02/05
International System?  ab@... | 02/02/05
Recognition by agreement.  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
This argument shot down months ago.  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
And your interlocutor never shouted, "Missed!"...  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
Did you read the full Wiki entry?  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
are you saying WTO is the US?  hipparchus2000 | 02/02/05
Of course the EU is giving out software patents.  Anton Philidor | 02/03/05
unfortunately getting a patent and it surviving being challenged not same  hipparchus2001 | 02/04/05
It certainly has been for you!  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
making an assumption there  voska | 02/02/05
Speaking of hypocrites... happy  MacCanuck | 02/02/05
Patents are good  robradina@... | 02/02/05
True in some cases, but not here  rgafron@... | 02/02/05
Copyright is MEANINGLESS in software.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
That's not how patents are supposed to work  voska | 02/02/05
No, that is your "opinion", not the facts.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
why have copyrights then?  voska | 02/02/05
Copyright works well for written works and music  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Code is a written work  voska | 02/02/05
Not really..  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
Best check it out  lengua99 | 02/07/05
Good point, except...  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
It should also have to be non trivial  hipparchus2001 | 02/04/05
Nice twistage  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Copyrights are not patents  wresnick | 02/04/05
Look at what patents are being written for  johnlb2002 | 02/04/05
Tell that to Bill Gates  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
How Bill G. does something...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Ummm dude  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
So in other words  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
Show me one useful patent....  ab@... | 02/02/05
How about mine..  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Is it a software patent?  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
Yes it is patented...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
RE: Yes it is patented...  Michael Kelly | 02/02/05
Kelly...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
I hate ZDNet's limitations...  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
No_Ax and copying...  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
RE: Kelly  Michael Kelly | 02/02/05
Re AX: Kelly and the printing Press  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Patrick and copying...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
No_Ax  Patrick Jones | 02/03/05
You've piqued my curiosity  Michael Kelly | 02/02/05
Not a chance...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
We already know the name of your company, Don!  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
RE: Not a chance...  Michael Kelly | 02/02/05
Prior art  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
what an apt example  seal101 | 02/02/05
Delusional  osreinstall | 02/03/05
Patenting the idea  rgafron@... | 02/04/05
One other thing  rgafron@... | 02/04/05
Patenting A clothespin, not THE clothespin.  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
Safety razors  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
Don't tell me they patented shaving?!  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
Not quite  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
Should get the story right.  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
the problem with software patents  seal101 | 02/02/05
Patenting  osreinstall | 02/03/05
Interesting thoughts...  robradina@... | 02/04/05
Interesting -- but ....  johnlb2002 | 02/04/05
Patents on "common use" are bad  rrnach | 02/04/05
Paperwork  osreinstall | 02/04/05
But if I show any prior art  johnlb2002 | 02/04/05
US Patent law does not allow patenting ideas  DickCaro | 02/05/05
Not True  osreinstall | 02/05/05
Make millions out of a great thought!  agottschald | 02/06/05
Consider: The only ones whining is open source.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Not really any different...  rapson | 02/02/05
Re: Not really any different...  none none | 02/04/05
You're right.. the EU must be imaginary...  Xunil_Sierutuf | 02/02/05
No, but your argument is.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Wrong (yet again)  ab@... | 02/02/05
As I said, SHOW ME.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Fools  rkadowns | 02/02/05
But it doesn't work  voska | 02/02/05
Nothing is perfect now is it?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
You illustrate my point on Biased perfectly  voska | 02/02/05
Take your personal opinions somewhere else.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Simple Change would almost be a FIX  Progress_z | 02/04/05
wrong patents are to serve society not business  hipparchus2000 | 02/02/05
Serving business serves society.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/03/05
so pay a guy for filing trivial patents instead of more to a real genius  hipparchus2001 | 02/04/05
Re: No, but your argument is.  none none | 02/04/05
Sorry, No_Ax, this argument is bogus  Root User | 02/02/05
Show me then...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Easy (well maybe not 50)..  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
Sorry, not a single business in them.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Um...  Patrick Jones | 02/02/05
Sorry, but check his real stance...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Yes..  Patrick Jones | 02/03/05
the maximisation of technology for the benefit of the people  hipparchus2000 | 02/02/05
Dude, do you stop to think?  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
I'd like to see 100. No, 50...  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Irregardless  Spoon Jabber | 02/03/05
Re: Show me then...  none none | 02/04/05
As usual, bitty too ignorant to provide proof  AmusedAtItAll | 02/05/05
Why wouldn't innovation be harmed?  voska | 02/02/05
Show me what branch of code development that isn't  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
That's right now, I'm talking about tomorow  voska | 02/02/05
You have it backward...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Software pantents existed 200 years ago  voska | 02/02/05
How about 10?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
No, the patent process did.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
I'd like to see the proof, No_Ax  CobraA1 | 02/03/05
You need proof? Do you have eyes?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/03/05
Thanks for confirming you have no proof  CobraA1 | 02/03/05
Cobra, let me take you by the hand then.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/03/05
The Greatest econimic power? ...Innovator?  The King's Servant | 02/03/05
I know we're an economic/technological leader, I never denied it.  CobraA1 | 02/03/05
happy  osreinstall | 02/02/05
EXACTLLY RIGHT!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
are you kidding, these effect everyone  JasonL31 | 02/02/05
Yes, and for the MAJORITY it's a positive effect.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
Because . . .  CobraA1 | 02/03/05
And once more I take you by the hand...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/03/05
nice  CobraA1 | 02/03/05
objective one  osreinstall | 02/03/05
RE: And once more I take you by the hand...  none none | 02/04/05
far and away most software business is in custom software  hipparchus2001 | 02/04/05
Isn't it interesting...  PA-ITGuy | 02/02/05
the little guy ain't a programmer...  seal101 | 02/02/05
Some of us recall your whining about this issue...  B.O.F.H. | 02/02/05
Some of us recall you having made sense, once.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/03/05
You aren't listening  Gregory.J.Bradley@... | 02/04/05
Consider: The only ones whining is open source.  rldc1_2000@... | 02/04/05
Patent "donations" a good idea?  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
Good point  rapson | 02/02/05
don't give software patents legitimacy  seal101 | 02/02/05
Spot Light that FOOBAR  Progress_z | 02/02/05
Perhaps we need a clearer definition ...  mwagner@... | 02/02/05
Not the IDEA  Progress_z | 02/02/05
Note...  ab@... | 02/02/05
A monopoly of idea  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
But Jefferson was pro-agrarian...  Anton Philidor | 02/02/05
It's about who you reward in society  hipparchus2001 | 02/04/05
A monopoly of idea  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
You cannot patent the thought of catching or trapping a mouse.  The King's Servant | 02/02/05
Not any more  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
I spake not of what has been granted by fools  The King's Servant | 02/03/05
Implementation, not idea  PA-ITGuy | 02/02/05
Sweet grapes?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
not to mention...  linuxoverwindows | 02/02/05
It's All About CHOICE Bitty....  itanalyst | 02/02/05
Your post is so off topic it deserves no responce.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/02/05
I thought the "sidekick" wasn't worth responding to!  Jeff Spicoli | 02/02/05
Don't You Have Some Employees To Monitor?  itanalyst | 02/02/05
regarding choice  osreinstall | 02/02/05
software patents  ragnars | 02/02/05
No U didn't  Progress_z | 02/02/05
Software Patents  andymac@... | 02/02/05
Sure  osreinstall | 02/02/05
CNET trashes Open Source...  daver_z | 02/02/05
The purpose of Patents was to help humanity.  daver_z | 02/02/05
Real purpose  osreinstall | 02/02/05
uh... which opensource universe are you talking about?  seal101 | 02/02/05
GPL  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Winner take all?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/02/05
Clueless again  osreinstall | 02/02/05
You're entitled to your opinion, but courts have decided that you are wrong  Root User | 02/02/05
it is under appeal  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Speech doesn't have to be understood by laypersons  Root User | 02/02/05
no it does not  osreinstall | 02/02/05
Not likely to be overturned...  Root User | 02/02/05
It should be  osreinstall | 02/03/05
If code is a mathematical algorithm, then it can't be patented...  widge_z | 02/03/05
re code  osreinstall | 02/03/05
ok, so...  widge_z | 02/03/05
You are missing the ag=rgument entirely.  The King's Servant | 02/03/05
wishful thinking  osreinstall | 02/03/05
You agree with me.  daver_z | 02/03/05
sort of  osreinstall | 02/04/05
The system is breaking down.  agottschald | 02/06/05
Open sourcers are OTL  osreinstall | 02/07/05
Creating wealth serves humanity.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/03/05
Not always. Developing novel ideas does though.  daver_z | 02/03/05
You really need to get out more!  B.O.F.H. | 02/04/05
No reply needed.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/06/05
Amen  rsdoyle@... | 02/04/05
Software patents: show me one that is non-obvious  hipparchus2000 | 02/02/05
I don't like Software-only patents  DickCaro | 02/04/05
Second that and think it should extend to ALL patents.  njohnson@... | 02/04/05
"too expensive and time consuming" yes I agree, the onus should be on PTO  hipparchus2001 | 02/04/05
Yes!! Software Patents now restarted... from scratch!  Root User | 02/02/05
Excellent...  seal101 | 02/02/05
Wow, now something they trash  FilledOut | 02/03/05
Wineos trash alcohol taxes!  TechType | 02/03/05
Open source folks do not understand Real Inventions  john_davis747@... | 02/03/05
just a thought  rldc1_2000@... | 02/04/05
Patents aren't the problem  Gregory.J.Bradley@... | 02/04/05
Open source must get it's own patents  aurizon | 02/04/05
What if you did invent some new ideas which surpass IBM/Microsoft?  LaurentChen@... | 02/04/05
Software is like music  NelsonVe | 02/04/05
software patens,bad idea  towells | 02/04/05
Aggressive patents will drive services off-shore  yusoshi | 02/04/05
Either deliver the product or release the patent.......  jerryh@... | 02/04/05
Software patents  erniecicco | 02/04/05
Constitutional Right?  rsdoyle@... | 02/04/05
Article One, Section 8  hjleevta | 02/05/05
Its crazy to think  hdwilkins | 02/04/05
software patents  lb_z | 02/04/05
Making a living  Racketdog | 02/04/05
Doesn't source code become public w/patents?  gsparksjr@... | 02/04/05
Nope  osreinstall | 02/04/05
Yes they are objects of greed not innovation  Winfan | 02/04/05
Software should be copyrighted, period.  jbobst | 02/04/05
Copyright software  rsdoyle@... | 02/04/05
software patents waste money and time  lccornwell | 02/04/05
Bugger patents  scotasys | 02/04/05
Re: Bugger patents  ReFoRMaT | 02/05/05
some thoughts to chew on  rldc1_2000@... | 02/04/05
Patents are supposed to be for original work  b2miller@... | 02/04/05
Billy & Co. can 'lawyer up'...  ReFoRMaT | 02/05/05
Only the "well to do" Linux crowd hate Patends  John Zern | 02/05/05
A better alternative  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/06/05
Put this on a website - it'll get buried when new articles come (nt)  CobraA1 | 02/06/05
initial thoughts  CobraA1 | 02/06/05
Trashing Software Patents  Evisscerator | 02/06/05

What do you think?

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