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you are wrong .. the question is why do customers choose?: You are 180 degrees out of phase. The real question is why did the customer choose to install the features. If it was because they saw MS as a trusted vendor offering a "freebie" that's a simple business choice. If its because the option was get patches with bundled apps or run old unpatched OS without bundled apps then MS is on shaky ground.

I fail to understand why the MS faithful don't revolt and hold MS's feet to the fire. Do you realize the reason MS never hits its development deadlines and has such a shaky quality track record is because it spreads itself too thin? They need to focus rather than try to own everything!

So the question is, why does Microsoft think these capabilities are useful in these situations?

Sorry, but that's a supply side argument that says the customer is not capable of choosing what they need. It might work if MS was not a Monopolist, but, this is reality and they are!

Certainly MS is free to make reccomendations, and make certain confiurations easy to build, but precluding customer choice is simply an illegal tactic that will eventually lead to MS's downfall.

Every structure is built on a solid foundation ... MS is fooling itself when it claims "customers choose to install" its bundled features!; Posted by: oldskool Posted on: 06/15/04 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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Remarkable Craftmanship in Desing/Implementation michael-t | 06/14/04

Now wait just a minute! Anton Philidor | 06/14/04

I am not michael-t | 06/14/04

Strongr Security Settings IT_Critic | 06/15/04

Hey the fact is that MS always responds jimk_z | 06/15/04

If you truly believe that ... Mike Rotch | 06/15/04

Great michael-t | 06/15/04

Missed deadline richhayes | 06/15/04

By definition rock06r | 06/15/04

Surprise, surprise, MS bundled "new features" in with its patches oldskool | 06/14/04

Security IT_Critic | 06/15/04

Believe it or not, rock06r | 06/15/04

No other company "sneaks" applications in with patches oldskool | 06/15/04

And I see where you made your mistake. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

dismissive statements can be confused as arrogant oldskool | 06/15/04

Thanks for the Linux-centric view, but... rock06r | 06/15/04

its a simple reality that bug fixes are not feature push opportunities oldskool | 06/15/04

RE:Oldskool ShadeTree | 06/16/04

Windows ISV, not MS competitors want Windows APIs opened up oldskool | 06/17/04

Well, if your argument is that rock06r | 06/15/04

Code PATCH, not a Feature Release mdailey | 06/15/04

It's neither a code patch nor a feature release ... Ardian Daka | 06/15/04

You're kidding, right? mdailey | 06/15/04

As I said: there's no legal definition (NT) Ardian Daka | 06/15/04

There is well understood industry interpretation though! oldskool | 06/15/04

Then don't install the service pack voska | 06/15/04

This is a non answer, customers want regression tested patches! oldskool | 06/15/04

Legal restrictions? rapson | 06/15/04

Software 101 Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

Why argue against common sense voska | 06/15/04

History 862.3 Sign-Up Sheet Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

you are wrong .. the question is why do customers choose? oldskool | 06/15/04

Why does Microsoft choose to... Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

MS exploits its position as dominant vendor - nothing more! oldskool | 06/15/04

Just business Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

Add to above Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

re-read the thread ... you said MS-evil, not me! oldskool | 06/15/04

Speak for yourself... dj_45_cal | 06/15/04

Spoken like someone who doesn't really use a computer rdlink | 06/16/04

Unwanted features tic swayback | 06/15/04

So why not... No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Stop whining about all the whining... tic swayback | 06/15/04

So the users who want to use a "slimmer Windows" don't count? oldskool | 06/15/04

The majority of users.... ShadeTree | 06/15/04

How dare you use common sense in the talkbacks! No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

your in denial, but that's your issue! oldskool | 06/15/04

RE: oldskool ShadeTree | 06/16/04

You can't please this crowd, "Good Post". Gorgonn | 07/12/04

Sorry, but you are talking about open source users, not MS users. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

i just polled 1000 innocent bystanders! oldskool | 06/15/04

985 asked, "What's an operating system?" (NT) Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

If users don't know what an OS is, then they arn't CHOOSING Windows! oldskool | 06/17/04

"Hidden" rather than "new" are the problem... MacCanuck | 06/15/04

So what is *YOUR* problem.. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

So AXE, I can assume you don't work in Customer Service, right? oldskool | 06/15/04

Sure I do, I give good advice too. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Thanks for the advice... MacCanuck | 06/15/04

Everybody complains about product activation..... ShadeTree | 06/15/04

how about the 30-100 Billion in lost productivity last year? oldskool | 06/15/04

Ah, the "cost" myth. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

You asked, so here are some examples tic swayback | 06/15/04

Nice try ShadeTree | 06/16/04

Funny thing, I like Pong and Space Invaders voska | 06/15/04

listen up ... people want a quality OS not an OS and 10 second rate apps oldskool | 06/15/04

So what is stopping you? No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

I'll stick to using Windows as long as the internet connection is inactive oldskool | 06/15/04

So once again we have.... ShadeTree | 06/16/04

wan't me who decided not to allow Windows without bundled apps oldskool | 06/17/04

Depends Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

12XP is a much smaller segment of the market than sales numbers suggest! oldskool | 06/15/04

Does this service back still block Windows update? whisperycat | 06/15/04

Ignorance reveiled Ardian Daka | 06/15/04

damned if you do and damned if you dont.... JoeMama_z | 06/15/04

Don't you just love all the bashing.... ShadeTree | 06/15/04

What else do you expect from the unthinking? No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

What else do YOU expect? Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

DId they use a gun? No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

No, and I don't use Linux at home Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

Sounds like you have a smart boss. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Title should have been "I DO use Linux at home " Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

So your real complaint is that... No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Who said he wasn't letting me switch? Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

You did silly... No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Read on Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

Huh? Why not? No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

But what if... Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

I guess it was too much.... ShadeTree | 06/15/04

On the bright side, they make open source look horrible. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Don't confuse the "community" with the zealots. Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

Impossible to tell the difference. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

The difference between Perens and the bashers Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

You haven't read enough of Perens writings then. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

If it bothers you that much, try reading more Torvalds and less Perens Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

You are generalizing too much toadlife | 06/15/04

I can't tell. Just read the posts. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Try someplace else besides ZDNet toadlife | 06/15/04

Stallman's Minions Anton Philidor | 06/15/04

(NT)Huh? toadlife | 06/15/04

Hee hee! tic swayback | 06/15/04

Now thats great coming from you after.. Iain_Peters | 06/16/04

Question tic swayback | 06/15/04

The EULA is basically the same as it has been ShadeTree | 06/15/04

Thanks tic swayback | 06/15/04

I have a question... DarbyOhara | 06/15/04

SP2 will update a base install of XP ShadeTree | 06/15/04

Little known Bill Gates history tells all ! wwwsupport | 06/15/04

Indded, he became the richest man in the US. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Sad commentary... MacCanuck | 06/15/04

MS does deserve credit for making software a commodity Michael Kelly | 06/15/04

A commodity means exchangable functionality .. MS fights that! oldskool | 06/15/04

That is one opinion, nothing more. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

So you are a decision maker at MS then .... ? oldskool | 06/15/04

Now your being obtuse. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

My, what a cute little rant. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Facts is facts Bit... or is that you Bill? MacCanuck | 06/15/04

If all else fails, insult the other person. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

That's your MO... MacCanuck | 06/15/04

stick to the facts ... it works oldskool | 06/15/04

Revised history??? No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

care to rebutt my statements rather than switch them? oldskool | 06/15/04

I sure will! No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Need back up to your claim Don. bgoss@... | 06/15/04

Judge Jackson was a complete idiot? You may be right. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

yeah, we got your argument ... they bought Windows & got a free PC oldskool | 06/15/04

DOS was Bill Gates' biggest gamble, bigger than Windows! oldskool | 06/15/04

Speaking of Big Blue... dj_45_cal | 06/15/04

Also... tgrady | 06/17/04

What is the value of this service pack ambraun@... | 06/15/04

why is an adware blocker required to fix an OS bug? oldskool | 06/15/04

Why did Samba need so many patchs? No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

your really not going to defend yourself on patch counts are you? oldskool | 06/15/04

Are you really this clueless about the SMB protocol and SaMBa? B.O.F.H. | 06/15/04

A patch is a patch is a patch. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

Huh? bgoss@... | 06/15/04

Here you go, just for you. No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

2 seperate and unrelated issues? B.O.F.H. | 06/15/04

If you want security and reliability wwwsupport | 06/16/04

Oh poor Microsoft, we feel for you, it'll be all right again. Spin_Masterz | 06/15/04

Uh huh, $57 Billion in th ebank "poor". No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/15/04

$57 Billion Dirty money, that is. Spin_Masterz | 06/15/04

doesn't $57B make a company a take over target? oldskool | 06/15/04

Poor as in "lacking morals and ethics"... MacCanuck | 06/16/04

Why put up with MS Windows? zahmadi | 06/16/04

I highly doubt that - and G4 is a dog zeusfuse | 06/16/04

You do realize the flaw in this logic right? DigitalKid | 06/16/04

Don't be so quick to blame Windows for your troubles DesigningKnight | 06/17/04

What ever happened to............... jb123 | 06/16/04

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