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MS Myths...or truths?
"Microsoft does NOT require PC makers (OEMs) to ship PCs with only Windows"

Here's how it works (Judge Jackson wrote it all down if you care to read it).

Microsoft has monopoly power in desktop operating systems - over 90% of new PCs sold have Windows installed. Computer manufacturers are given discounts on the price of Windows if they pay a licence fee to Microsoft for every computer sold. If they don't, the licence fee is increased by 15% to 20%. Given the extremely price conscious nature of the PC industry, that $10 or $15 in licence fee translates into $30 or $40 on the price of the PC - essentially pricing OEM's out of the market. This tactic was sufficient to get IBM to promise to drop OS/2, proof that it's very persuasive.

This type of licencing has been outlawed, however only after it had helped MS secure their monopoly. And the conditions have only changed marginally.

Microsoft also require that the BIOS not be altered, so OEM's can't install a second OS on their Windows PCs. This was the basis of Be's suit against MS(Microsoft settled out of court). The same tactic stops OEMs from selling dual-boot Windows and Linux boxes - if an OEM wants to do that, they have to sell a full retail version of Windows at about 4 times the cost of the pre-installed OEM version.

The cost of selling and supporting two PC lines with different operating systems installed raises the retail price, hence very few OEMs do it. They'd rather sell dual-boot across an entire range, not just the odd Linux box here and there.

So back in the mid-90's, MS did require OEMs to ship only Windows on every PC. They have relaxed that under regulatory constraint, but effectively they still use all their resources to ensure OEM's ship Windows only.

"You also have misread if you believe that MS 'claims a pure client application like a web browser', 'canot be separated from the underlying OS.'"

Your defence here is quite good, you have paraphrased MS quite nicely. And yes, MS bundling IE was not shown to harm consumers sufficiently for the court of appeals to uphold action to stop it. But Microsoft didn't disprove harm either. They paid AOL $750 million plus gave them free use of IE for 7 years to stop a ruling on bundling in the subsequent AOL case.

If MS were so confident on the bundling issue, why did they give AOL such a massive payout?

And Microsoft's defence was that IE was technically an inseparable part of Windows. Not only did they lie to the court on that fact, they had to doctor the demonstration that they purported showed removing IE broke Windows - and were caught out.

That MS integrated IE into Windows is not the issue, it's that integrating the browser does not provide any benefit to consumers and makes it more difficult for any competitor to enter into the browser market. That is the basis of the harm to consumers argument. Unfortunately, the DoJ dropped the ball and didn't pursue it and AOL were paid of (massively).

The EU case is essentially over bundling, yet again. The issue will not go away until MS behave themselves.
Posted by: Fred Fredrickson   Posted on: 04/21/04 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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Microsoft is coming on REALLY strong...  Mike Cox | 04/21/04
But CompUSA refunds opened Windows?  IT_User | 04/21/04
What are YOU TALKING ABOUT?  Mike Cox | 04/21/04
I love you Mike.  DpuTiger | 04/21/04
you should be paid by ZDnet  el1jones | 04/21/04
who says he isn't?  ryusen | 04/21/04
You're absolutely right  IT_User | 04/21/04
Re: What are YOU TALKING ABOUT?  SC-man | 04/22/04
Cut him some slack!  Yen_z | 04/21/04
Well actually  IT_User | 04/21/04
Actually CompUSA gave RedHat rebates  prong@... | 04/21/04
No refunds on open software --- ROFLMAO  g_ludlow | 04/21/04
MikeCox, BikeLocks, HikeSox, WhoCares?  AtypicalZork | 04/21/04
Actually  FirstNLastN | 04/21/04
We malcontents  km4hr@... | 04/21/04
Works both ways. Isn't that amazing?  Spam-ZD | 04/21/04
Line 'em up  ynotpe@... | 04/24/04
Aww Puh-Leeez, Mike  Snippy Clippit | 04/21/04
Open software vs open sorce  billr@... | 04/21/04
9.95!!!  Jack-Booted EULA | 04/21/04
Some quotes from Microsoft....  Northwolf | 04/22/04
The perfect response  IT_User | 04/21/04
And the first innovation will be...  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
Innovation from MS???  bchesmer | 04/21/04
Not a bad thought  IT_User | 04/21/04
or...  ryusen | 04/21/04
better?  dwest_z | 04/21/04
better?  seosamh_z | 04/21/04
On which particular planet is that?  bchesmer | 04/21/04
On which particular planet is that?  seosamh_z | 04/21/04
Want data, here it is...  bchesmer | 04/21/04
Everyone wins.  chiishen | 04/21/04
Oh yeah...M$...the great innovator....like the MCP !!!  harmison | 04/21/04
Cool Movie  voska | 04/21/04
No, like open office. Buwahahahaha  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/21/04
relevence == none?  ryusen | 04/21/04
Not a real office suite  IT_User | 04/21/04
M$ the Innovator ----ROFL  drichards1953 | 04/21/04
Are you listening, antitrust regulators?  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
Actually they still have monopoly  voska | 04/21/04
Numbers used as needed...  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
problem is not the monopoly, per se  auser_that_reads | 04/21/04
I disagree with you  IT_User | 04/21/04
You haven't read  Don Bradley | 04/21/04
MS Myths...or truths?  Fred Fredrickson | 04/21/04
Fred We need to read the same text the same way  Don Bradley | 04/21/04
Playing fast and loose with "myths"  IT_User | 04/21/04
Look IT_User  Don Bradley | 04/21/04
MS shills love to believe the myth  Spam-ZD | 04/21/04
OK Spam  Don Bradley | 04/21/04
An operating system includes a browser.  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
No  IT_User | 04/21/04
So there is a law defining an operating system?  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
Response to another post  Spam-ZD | 04/21/04
True to a point...  bchesmer | 04/21/04
This is good  Spam-ZD | 04/21/04
MS doesn't agree with you - you have embellished their position!  oldskool | 04/21/04
Not bundled, integrated  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
you say tomato - MS says its not integrated in the OS  oldskool | 04/23/04
Linux has replaced Unix?  IT_User | 04/21/04
Have to change some definitions, yes.  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
Unix on Desktop  mrlinux | 04/22/04
unix on the desktop  Dr. Colossus | 04/23/04
stick to the same tense...  ryusen | 04/21/04
Potential competition...  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
java didn't exist?  ryusen | 04/21/04
And we'd stop getting our paychecks, health care, etc  IT_User | 04/21/04
Java existed, but it's not a desktop os  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
either way,  ryusen | 04/22/04
Praise Linux  voska | 04/21/04
This is Propaganda  Kamakazii | 04/21/04
If Linux gets 20% of the desktop it will be too late  Michael Kelly | 04/21/04
No, it doesn't work that way.  mvaar | 04/21/04
With 90+% of the desktop market...  B.O.F.H. | 04/21/04
care?  dwest_z | 04/21/04
M$ should care  drichards1953 | 04/21/04
Strangely I agree  Chad_z | 04/21/04
Could somebody please tell me .....  wackoae | 04/21/04
How about Clippy? ...  el1jones | 04/21/04
Hey now, don't forget inovative Microsoft Bob (NT)  JonathonDoe | 04/21/04
Clippy may have to find a new job..  drichards1953 | 04/21/04
Often wondered the same myself.  FederalistPaperBoy | 04/21/04
Umm, what do you mean?  voska | 04/21/04
Oh please  Tommy Gun | 04/21/04
Say pretty please  Spoon Jabber | 04/21/04
Right on  NemesisNL | 04/21/04
Linux will NEVER overtake Microsoft  Saxonborg | 04/21/04
Lindows?!  el1jones | 04/21/04
You need more experience.  doe_z | 04/21/04
I think the point is...  PA-ITGuy | 04/21/04
3.1 was my personal experience.  doe_z | 04/21/04
how to use a PC?  PA-ITGuy | 04/21/04
You misunderstood.  doe_z | 04/21/04
Couldn't agree more...  are-you-thinking | 04/21/04
How do I say this...  PA-ITGuy | 04/22/04
Most people today don't know how to install stuff  voska | 04/21/04
A cousin told me this...  doe_z | 04/21/04
If all you want to do is use your computer,  ITGuy04 | 04/21/04
WRONG  drichards1953 | 04/21/04
I hear your frustration...  FederalistPaperBoy | 04/21/04
I agree almost totally  IT_User | 04/21/04
Nice to hear from you!  FederalistPaperBoy | 04/21/04
True statement  Anton Philidor | 04/21/04
And Windows is straight forward???  are-you-thinking | 04/21/04
Hmmmm... Let's see here....  FederalistPaperBoy | 04/21/04
Acknowledgement...  mabricen | 04/21/04
90% Monopoly Stranglehold . . .  xero11 | 04/21/04
Time will tell its tale in this...  bchesmer | 04/21/04
What MS really means  graphic3211 | 04/21/04
Re: What MS really means  xero11 | 04/21/04
And no differnt than any other company out there  voska | 04/21/04
You're correct . . .  xero11 | 04/21/04
Linux and It's Components Does Have Flaws Check This Site TONS OF FLAWS  cancelled@... | 04/21/04
Dont worry there are windows ones too  cancelled@... | 04/21/04
Do you mean FOOL proof?  Spoon Jabber | 04/22/04
isn't that what we've been saying  Arrg | 04/21/04
what are they smoking?  +-Chris-+ | 04/21/04
I agree let's bring it on  kb0old1978 | 04/21/04
Forget competition...fix Hotmail first!!!!  esdrasf@... | 04/21/04
So in other words....  supoman | 04/21/04
MS , where is the beef?  wldrylie | 04/21/04
It doesn't matter  casbo | 04/21/04
ms thrives on competition  V Sanders | 04/21/04
Sooooo....  Spoon Jabber | 04/22/04
Sounds like a stupid skier beckoning an avalance !  mvaar | 04/21/04
Bit of a hollow threat  Spam-ZD | 04/21/04
The truest thing ever said from MicroSoft.  Outside T. Box | 04/22/04
MS, have you beat you penguin today?  FilledOut | 04/23/04

What do you think?

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