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Yawn
Re: MS is communist

Yeah I've heard this drivel for a while. No corporation discloses everything about their product or their activities, except where required by law. That's the nature of competition. You have your secret sauce, and so does your competitor. Each desperately wants to find out what each other's sauce is made of, and would jump at the chance to learn it. The difference with OSS is the companies that support it largely have their secret sauce in something else, like their hardware, or their internal business operations that support their service. It's not in the software for the most part. For example, does Intel disclose everything about how they make their chips (except for what they've patented)? Do they disclose 100% of how they designed their chips to achieve their hardware features or performance? I haven't looked, but I can guess at the answer pretty reliably.

Do they disclose the machine language/signal specifications for their chips? Of course, so that customers can use them. Hiding that information would be silly, because then no one could use their chips and they'd have no customer base. With commercial companies, they disclose some things about their products, but not other aspects, which they consider to be trade secrets.

MS has made more information publicly available than it used to. They've documented their APIs pretty thoroughly online so you don't need an MSDN subscription to get access to it. The only source code they provide is examples so developers get an idea of how to use their APIs, but they tend to not disclose the code beneath their APIs, with a few exceptions. There's [url=http://channel9.msdn.com/]Channel 9[/url], which gives general inside information on what they're working on before they release products to the public. There are quite a few MS employee blogs that disclose similar information, though I doubt there's source code on them, except for example "usage" code.

I understand what you want to see is 100% of the source code, and anything less is communist to you, and that's your preference. Just understand that it's not everybody's preference. Personally I'd rather not look at the source code of some underlying infrastructure I'm putting software on top of if I don't have to, but then I'm a business applications developer, not a hardware hacker.

I do like having the ability to look at the underlying code from time to time. I liked the fact that quite a bit of source code was made available in MFC (I stayed away from VB), though generally I avoided reading it. Only looked at it when I had to. The .Net API can be decompiled (it's not obfuscated though I can't vouche for 100% of that codebase), and there are free tools available that allow you to do just that.
Posted by: Mark Miller   Posted on: 05/09/06 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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Kinda knew this was coming...  Tony Agudo | 05/05/06
I've seen scattered anectodtal reports from users  toadlife | 05/05/06
That's understandable...  Tony Agudo | 05/06/06
minor issue  Linux Geek | 05/08/06
I thought...  rapson | 05/08/06
Yeah...hey!!  techboy_z | 05/08/06
Get Real Chum  Cayble | 05/08/06
I like the fact that this can not be swept under the rug.  DonnieBoy | 05/05/06
Message has been deleted.  toadlife | 05/05/06
Grow up  Necrolin | 05/05/06
Sorry  toadlife | 05/06/06
re: sorry  barsteward | 05/06/06
No problem with open source  toadlife | 05/06/06
The point is, if you had an argument, you would have made it.  DonnieBoy | 05/06/06
Usually, you can tell those that don't have an argument.  DonnieBoy | 05/06/06
Well, we never see Microsoft kernel developers freely speaking their mind  DonnieBoy | 05/06/06
Stupid comment  rock06r | 05/06/06
Linux is closer to the Libertarian model...  HypnoToad72 | 05/06/06
With Linux, all developers are free to speak their mind about the quality  DonnieBoy | 05/06/06
You need a brain  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
You need an argument. Go back and read my post and see what you find to  DonnieBoy | 05/07/06
Do you work for Microsoft  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
I don't work for crooks, so, no I don't work for Microsoft. Probably never  DonnieBoy | 05/07/06
I think you do  BFD | 05/08/06
Communism: Marx vs Reality  hulse_kevin | 05/08/06
Free to pursue self-interest  Anton Philidor | 05/08/06
power topic  tridell | 05/06/06
Precisely. Well said!  HypnoToad72 | 05/06/06
Propriatory model cannot sweep it under the rug either.  osreinstall | 05/06/06
Wow, all MS kernel developers are free to speak their mind? Nothing held  DonnieBoy | 05/07/06
I don't think so DonnieBoy  osreinstall | 05/07/06
Still, exactly like China, information and speach are closely controlled  DonnieBoy | 05/08/06
But the people that control it are free to discuss with each other.  osreinstall | 05/08/06
In China they have all kinds of internal discussions as well, but like MS  DonnieBoy | 05/08/06
DonnieBoy, you really are not thinking.  osreinstall | 05/08/06
Communist?  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
Well, in the sense that everything is free and open, and all are free to  DonnieBoy | 05/07/06
Really?  Real World | 05/08/06
The project is GPL, so Linus MUST keep everybody happy, or there will be a  DonnieBoy | 05/08/06
News flash  Real World | 05/08/06
News flash: revolutions are put down with force. Tiananmen Square??  DonnieBoy | 05/08/06
Hey I agree  Roger Ramjet | 05/08/06
America's Great  b.d.hi | 05/08/06
I like the fact that...  John Zern | 05/08/06
Well, the maintainer is concerned about bugs, but still an order of  DonnieBoy | 05/08/06
Yawn  Mark Miller | 05/09/06
Motivation  LordLiverpool | 05/06/06
It's a good thing  toadlife | 05/06/06
Here Here...  mdsmedia | 05/06/06
Eliminating bugs does not mean...  Anton Philidor | 05/08/06
confession -- more like transparency  tridell | 05/06/06
Bugs  The Tautologist | 05/06/06
How many bugs?  Spacely Spacerockets | 05/07/06
Oh no, there goes Redmond. Oh no, Bugzilla!  hulse_kevin | 05/08/06
It's a confession for the community, of sorts  Mark Miller | 05/09/06
Linux kernel 'getting buggier,' leader says  Loverock Davidson | 05/06/06
re: Linux kernel 'getting buggier,' leader says  barsteward | 05/06/06
What did I miss?  Loverock Davidson | 05/06/06
Actually...  John Le'Brecage | 05/06/06
and what you missed...  John Le'Brecage | 05/06/06
re: What did I miss  barsteward | 05/07/06
Not only that, but also...  zkiwi | 05/07/06
WARNING! WARNING!  lampdeveloper | 05/07/06
Proved my point perfectly  Loverock Davidson | 05/08/06
Just how is this any different than BSD?  Roger Ramjet | 05/08/06
Because its linux?  Loverock Davidson | 05/08/06
2 major differences, really...  Tony Agudo | 05/08/06
Patchy OS?  Kubuntoid | 05/10/06
Well once again the Linux  Linux User 147560 | 05/06/06
Perhaps  Loverock Davidson | 05/06/06
Hello...  Linux User 147560 | 05/06/06
I am so impressed  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
Doesn't take much to impress you though  Shelendrea | 05/08/06
You go girl happy  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 05/08/06
SuSE 9.1  Linux User 147560 | 05/06/06
Suse 9.1  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
SouthernPride you should  I'm Ye, the MS SHILL . | 05/08/06
Unbelievable  I'm Ye, the MS SHILL . | 05/08/06
It's ok  Shelendrea | 05/08/06
SP  Bite Me_Ax_Moron | 05/11/06
When you're right, you're right.  Anton Philidor | 05/08/06
Thank you Anton  Linux User 147560 | 05/08/06
bugs != features  linuxoverwindows | 05/06/06
Why does Morton care?  ye | 05/06/06
Gee Ye that's an easy one!  Linux User 147560 | 05/06/06
You are NOT a developer!  Spacely Spacerockets | 05/07/06
in a way, he's right, and you're being blind  Monkey_MCSE | 05/07/06
Who cares  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
if using common sense is considered  Monkey_MCSE | 05/08/06
Thank you for clarifying my intent...  Linux User 147560 | 05/07/06
That you are  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
Linux User's comments don't target process, but people.  bmonster | 05/08/06
you're right  Monkey_MCSE | 05/08/06
This was one of those times when I felt the need  Linux User 147560 | 05/08/06
I'm a developer !!!  I'm Ye, the MS SHILL . | 05/08/06
All good Jetson fans know ...  ShadeTree | 05/08/06
Gee did you get a lunchtime break  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
So tell me SP  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 05/08/06
Not according to the article.  ye | 05/07/06
More bugs? Or more users discovering old bugs?  Mr. Roboto | 05/06/06
They could do that...  Tony Agudo | 05/06/06
A better mechanism processing kernel is needed  eniak | 05/06/06
My rep and I have the power now...  Mike Cox | 05/06/06
I give it a...  Tony Agudo | 05/06/06
I have also  michael_t | 05/08/06
Mike, CFO has obtained control over your budget?  Anton Philidor | 05/08/06
Yet your rep can't give you a definitive Vista release date....  itanalyst | 05/08/06
You've been here a while...  John Zern | 05/08/06
Foolish Rush  Kimbok@... | 05/07/06
OS == politics :: OS == religion  Linux User 147560 | 05/07/06
Message has been deleted.  SouthernPride | 05/07/06
Gee, late night posting is bad...  Linux User 147560 | 05/08/06
Yeah, but you're still a target...  techboy_z | 05/08/06
ROFLMAO!  Linux User 147560 | 05/08/06
ROTFL  Shelendrea | 05/08/06
Traitor  Boot_Agnostic | 05/08/06
And Leon is getting LARRRRRGERRRR!!!!  itanalyst | 05/08/06
K, I'll bite...  Linux User 147560 | 05/08/06
Its a line from the movie Airplane.  widge_z | 05/08/06
Been a while...  Linux User 147560 | 05/08/06
Airplane Rocks! happy  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 05/08/06
Have a little patience people  Shelendrea | 05/08/06
Yes, indeed this is a huge issue!  michael_t | 05/08/06
More bugs or more bug reporters?  Exile_z | 05/08/06
Well at least there is BSD  netman4ttm | 05/08/06
Why oh why no fixed ABI for drivers?  stevey_d | 05/08/06
Honesty Rules  support@... | 05/08/06
The inmates are running the asylum?  computerworkspro | 05/08/06
I have been using a 2.6 kernel  Sysop1984 | 05/08/06
Torvalds considers "feature freeze" bug fix cycle  Tim Patterson | 05/09/06
The kernel may be fine but Fedora 5 feels buggier  Boot_Agnostic | 05/09/06
Pretty confident the kernel is good  Linux User 147560 | 05/09/06
I've just started to experiment with OpenSuSe 10  Boot_Agnostic | 05/09/06
maybe its fedora...  Sysop1984 | 05/09/06
most likely  Boot_Agnostic | 05/09/06
OSS not immune to traits of software development  Mark Miller | 05/09/06

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