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You've never had to support...
... a decision you don't agree with, or a decision-maker who acts in opposition to your recommendations?

You've been lucky so far, then, but I wouldn't expect such luck to last forever.
Posted by: Anton Philidor   Posted on: 12/29/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Touche  Goldie_Simmons | 12/29/05
Only an Open Source advocate could construe ...  ShadeTree | 12/29/05
You must be joking, a week from now...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
You're kidding, right?  techboy_z | 12/29/05
15 minutes of fame is over.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
I've made my career with proprietary  bjbrock | 12/29/05
Before you get excited,  bjbrock | 12/29/05
happy  nomorems | 12/29/05
ROI=just another buzzword ...  Too Old For IT | 12/30/05
Industries grow up.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I don't know why everyone loves  bjbrock | 12/29/05
Thats 15 minutes  nomorems | 12/29/05
Typical  node357 | 12/30/05
think again no_ax  hipparchus2001 | 12/29/05
I anxiously await the martyr's book  mighetto | 12/29/05
No surprise.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Not "wrong"  #_z | 12/29/05
I didn't use the word "wrong".  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
C'mon Anton  Tim Patterson | 12/29/05
Microsoft would not have been happy, of course...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I highly doubt it.  mosborne | 12/29/05
Sunshine patriots  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Yes, typically Microsoft.  nomorems | 12/29/05
Yes, wrong  IT_User | 12/29/05
Suppose he hadn't held the hearing(s)...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Would not have made an iota of differnece.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Agreed. (NT)  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Wrong  IT_User | 12/29/05
Umm, saying wrong i seasy, your proof?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Careful ~  nomorems | 12/29/05
You tell me  IT_User | 12/29/05
Organizational dynamics are different...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
That;'s what his former boss did  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
I'm not sure about the timing...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You're wrong...objectively!  techboy_z | 12/29/05
You could not be more wrong...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Style of Decision Making  mighetto | 12/29/05
Sometimes, sayings are not correct.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
Interesting what some support  Tim Patterson | 12/29/05
If I had been advising Mr. Quinn...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
thank goodness you weren't  mosborne | 12/29/05
You've never had to support...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I have done so many times actually  mosborne | 12/29/05
Then you know that good advice...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
another M$ crime!  Linux Geek | 12/29/05
Again?  nomorems | 12/29/05
CIO - CHIEF Information Officer - the buck stops there  el1jones | 12/29/05
Ironically, it's the opposition to Microsoft...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
When you work in a political environment, you can NOT ignore politics.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Not a political decision  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
You claim it was a purely technical decision ...  ShadeTree | 12/29/05
I think you hit it dead on.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Politics are in the private sector too.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
It became political  IT_User | 12/29/05
So you think hiding would have helped?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
But  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Not quite true...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
What were the technical merits that Microsoft's ...  ShadeTree | 12/29/05
Technical = Mass. lost the anti-trust suit.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Once again No_Ax spouts with no proof  nomorems | 12/29/05
RE: What were the technical merits that Microsoft's ...  Scott W | 01/01/06
RE: What were the technical merits that Microsoft's ...  Scott W | 01/01/06
RE: Scott W  ShadeTree | 01/03/06
"pretty", "almost solely"  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Are you still trying to argue technical reasons?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Are you still trying to defend meritless decisions?  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Have you ignored history?  Mark Miller | 01/01/06
So you are saying it doesn't matter how good something is technically?  Steve Z | 12/30/05
How much more evidence do you need(?)...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Mr Quinn was an agent of MA  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Agent in rebellion.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Simply not true, even Quinn disagrees with you.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Problem is responding to Mr. Crocker's argument...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You will get no real answers  nomorems | 12/29/05
Re: ... real answers.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
This is why I find it difficult to  mosborne | 12/29/05
To review:  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You merely reinforce my point.  mosborne | 12/29/05
You're agreeing with my criticism...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I don't believe I am.  mosborne | 12/30/05
I criticize, you approve...  Anton Philidor | 12/30/05
Left out my closing para.  Anton Philidor | 12/30/05
RE: To review:  Scott W | 01/01/06
Hurried  Anton Philidor | 01/01/06
No  mosborne | 01/02/06
No  mosborne | 01/02/06
Role of users  Anton Philidor | 01/02/06
Balance is key  mosborne | 01/03/06
Of course it is...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Ignorant  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Ans you still seem to think your point matters...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Blunt Instrument  Harry Bardal | 12/29/05
And this matters in what way?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Uhh..Axe  nomorems | 12/29/05
Poor Axey; Just so sad..  nomorems | 12/29/05
Public impact made this a 'Political' decision  palmwarrior | 12/29/05
More than that, USERS didn't want it.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Users are included in both 'politcs' and 'Politics'  palmwarrior | 12/29/05
Had nothing to do with costs.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Try to see something... anything at all... from somebody else's perspective  palmwarrior | 12/29/05
Try to take your own advice.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
put the crackpipe down  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
Monkey, can't express a thought without names and insults?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
agreed  Flubnut | 12/29/05
You're making one big mistake...  techboy_z | 12/29/05
True, you gotta understand the ball park you play in.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
no_ax_...  mvaar | 12/29/05
That is one point of view.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
that IS a problem  mvaar | 12/29/05
Douglas MacArthur felt the same way too.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
MacArthur advised using nuclear bombs on China...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Don't you hate taking orders from a haberdasher.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
Ah, you mean like not allowing Churchill to say anything.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Churchill Leader of the Opposition  mighetto | 12/29/05
Um,mm, who is the highest ranking Military Officer in the US???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Nope - There is another  mighetto | 12/29/05
And the ELECTED person then runs the military.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Still subordinate to laws  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Ah, you mean like the President can't spy  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
The military's goals.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
There's a difference between politics and vicious personal attacks.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/30/05
The whole point  SQLServer | 12/29/05
That's a real shame... truly  shawkins | 12/29/05
Not really...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
It was not just open formats  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
Users didn't want it...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Probably the same internal training budget they always use.  Zogg | 12/29/05
No, Quinn said it would take $ millions.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
"No" what? All I said was that there's probably a training budget already.  Zogg | 12/29/05
Actually, there wasn't it came out at the hearings  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
Actually, there wasn't it came out at the hearings  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
*Someone* must have an existing training budget.  Zogg | 12/30/05
It's Too Bad He Couldn't Withstand the Spotlight  jimc52@... | 12/29/05
Speak with a forked tongue...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Speak with a confused, ignorant tongue...  Taz_z | 12/29/05
Ah, you want me to point out your ignorance then?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Now now... OpenDocument isn't "one basket".  Zogg | 12/29/05
Of course it is.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
That argument is utterly pointless since  mosborne | 12/29/05
Agreed. It's a piece of pure scare-mongering.  Zogg | 12/29/05
Ah, so you are agreeing it's all the eggs in one basket. Thank you!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
If you mean by "all eggs in one basket" that  mosborne | 12/29/05
Your "straight" record has a curious kink in it...  Zogg | 12/29/05
Need Independent Format  jimc52@... | 12/29/05
There is, it's called XML  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
And you don't know the difference between a format and a language ...  George Mitchell | 12/29/05
Then the standards folks are stupid then???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
I am shocked by you George!  B.O.F.H. | 12/29/05
LOL. ODF limited for who?  mosborne | 12/29/05
Tell that to your customers that demand MS functions.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
Are they demanding *MS* functions or  mosborne | 12/29/05
You would be using IE if he demanded it.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
someone would, not necessarily me  mosborne | 12/29/05
I suppose you can quit.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
The corporate and government consumer of course.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
No, not hardly.  mosborne | 12/29/05
But you are not corporate America.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Your argument doesn't wash  mosborne | 12/29/05
Your reply doesn't wash...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
However  IT Scion | 12/29/05
Obvious  nomorems | 12/29/05
its about time he left  zzz1234567890 | 12/29/05
You mean, no reason *you* think is valid  escoles@... | 12/30/05
If this were a business...  rrrr | 12/29/05
Professional not Slave  mighetto | 12/29/05
Professional janitors agree...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Hypothisis and Theory  mighetto | 12/29/05
No, it's a fact  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Hiring Programmers  mighetto | 12/29/05
Sorry, but hte country doesn't agree with you.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Really? Which country is that?  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/30/05
Corporate Spiel  GTO_Patrick | 12/30/05
Where he went wrong...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Should pick a better source to quote  mosborne | 12/29/05
Love it!  nomorems | 12/29/05
Google isn't an end all or a verification  jmills@... | 12/29/05
You are correct, it isn't. However,  mosborne | 12/30/05
Microsoft can NOT use ODF in Mass.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Oh really?  John Le'Brecage | 12/29/05
That's really a shame ...  George Mitchell | 12/29/05
Don's meaningless drivel  #_z | 12/29/05
Link please?  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Here is the Repository...  Still Lynn | 01/02/06
What about Kerberos then?  mosborne | 12/29/05
No_Ax  nomorems | 12/29/05
Absolutely, they voted with their wallet.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
I suppoise  nomorems | 12/29/05
Suppose anything you like, PROOF is in the buying.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
It is not FUD.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
It is FUD.  nomorems | 12/29/05
It is too  osreinstall | 12/29/05
You are almost correct...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
You and osreinstall are not correct (as usual)  barsteward | 12/30/05
Read the link I posted.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
No  zkiwi | 12/30/05
Not so!  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Here is a red herring, chase it...  Still Lynn | 12/30/05
Anything else.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Well, you're two for two so far...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Oops! Left out Star Office...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Not so Lynn  osreinstall | 12/31/05
3 for 3!  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
I do not need a history lesson and it is irrelavent.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
You should read your own URL postings  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
And who do you think will advise them.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
About not so Lynn  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
Same people, who cares about the hat.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Same People?  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
You would be amazed, Looneytoon.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Actually not much amazes me anymore  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
I always wondered why the state doesn't use closed bids to save money.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Closed bids  Looneytoon | 01/02/06
Yes, closed bids save money  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Arguments are getting circular  Looneytoon | 01/02/06
Not circular at all.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
This MA repository sounds like a typical Open Source distribution method.  Zogg | 01/04/06
Doesn't matter where you got the software from.  osreinstall | 01/04/06
That's really, really silly.  Zogg | 01/04/06
Zog, Apache is in the repository too.  osreinstall | 01/04/06
You are mistaken about many things  mosborne | 01/05/06
Are you pretending to be a lawyer now?  Zogg | 01/05/06
If you are one, I will not hire you.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
Key phrase in quote is "..running on.."  mosborne | 01/05/06
Perhaps how you look at it, mosborne.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
You could check it out for yourself rather than making a fool of youself!  B.O.F.H. | 01/05/06
Hey BOFH, do it the easier way.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
Which hurt more?  B.O.F.H. | 01/05/06
Nothing hurts at all.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
Read the Government Open Code Collaborative AGREEMENT  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
ODF is just a file format.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
I agree, it is a standard.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Message has been deleted.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
The GOCC is a collaborative.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Exactllky right, and you state the very reason to NOT use it.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
M$ is not.  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Now go look at the REPOSITORY!  Still Lynn | 12/30/05
Not just he repository...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Back on topic please....  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Even if that were true...  Feldon | 12/30/05
I guess you haven't heard of XML  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
MS has never tried to prevent its customers from accessing their data.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Well yes, but...  zkiwi | 12/30/05
People will use whatever is needed.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Well, you seem to have msunderstood...  zkiwi | 12/31/05
I can do that too.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
I agree with osreinstall, screw the tax payers!  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
BOFH, Licenses are cheap than custom tarballs.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Osreinstall, the issue is about file formats an not open v. commercial.  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
And you don't think ODF will evolve.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
The application is not the issue, it if file/data formats!  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
File format cannot remain static for all time. But the dopes will try.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
You are still harping on the wrong issues! User apps don't matter!  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
Fairness for all does matter.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Osreinstall, your argument has achieved absurdity!  B.O.F.H. | 01/02/06
No it hasn't. But your reasoning is flawed.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Manners please, osreinstall.  Zogg | 01/02/06
Zog, you are full of it again.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Osreinstall, more lies and absurdity from you?  B.O.F.H. | 01/02/06
BOFH, more FUD and fecal matter than a crate of Christmas geese!  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Osreinstall, I don't know where to begin with your errors... so many...  B.O.F.H. | 01/02/06
BOFH, You never will get it. Cranium case is too small.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
osresintall, your posts leave me with one question:  B.O.F.H. | 01/03/06
BOFH, do you want to clean up your act?  osreinstall | 01/03/06
So answer the damn question!  B.O.F.H. | 01/03/06
Puritanical Upbringing? Surely you jest.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
re: Microsoft can NOT use ODF in Mass.  barsteward | 12/30/05
re: Microsoft can NOT use ODF in Mass.  barsteward | 12/30/05
You're smarter than this  Steve Z | 12/30/05
Right thing to do ...  George Mitchell | 12/29/05
MA and Munich  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You forgot the most important one.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
deep throat  mighetto | 12/29/05
Standards limit or eliminate innovation and competition.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
That's not how standards work  Feldon | 12/30/05
To do as you say means Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
which leads to the old software patents debate  Feldon | 12/30/05
And then the 3 E's still apply.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
the 3 E's means fear of competition and lack of quality.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Nothing of the sort.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
No_Ax, time to put up or shut up!  B.O.F.H. | 12/31/05
What a complete crock.  mosborne | 12/30/05
The cracks in your crock...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Strange notion of cracks  mosborne | 12/30/05
Let me try one more time.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
that was a try?  mosborne | 12/30/05
As a programmer you should say 0 or more times...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Oh. I get it now. Standards...  John Zern | 01/01/06
Amazing  mosborne | 01/02/06
You really don't have a clue about what you are ranting about!  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Clearly you are confused.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Care to try again?  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Like TCP/IP, HTTP, and HTML?  Robert Crocker | 12/30/05
No_Ax analysis: he makes Mike Cox look like non-fiction  beerman_z | 12/29/05
Thanks for being another fan, it's appreciated.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
lol @ both  Feldon | 12/30/05
Always glad to give my fan club a chuckle.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
No doubt  Real World | 12/30/05
So you have other facts?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
if you posted any such facts yourself  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
You need to read the post where I quoted Quinn.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
I also read the site you linked  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
English lesson  Real World | 12/30/05
No, I asked you to show me yours.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Do us all a favor  Real World | 12/30/05
So you STGILL have nothing to offer other than insults???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Moral to this story.....  IT Scion | 12/29/05
Techie in the limelight? GACK!!!  Too Old For IT | 12/30/05
re:Monkey, can't express a thought without names and insults?  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
As I said, spomeone with your limitations iws to be pitied.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
you don't believe...  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
Can you do simple math?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
No wonder they named you monkey...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
slow for you old man  Monkey_MCSE | 01/01/06
Had to comment on one observation:  Anton Philidor | 01/01/06
It only shows that private businesses have  michael_t | 12/30/05
What are you talking about.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Your talking to a rabid zealot, don't waste the time. NT  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
pot, kettle, black n/t  mosborne | 12/30/05
disinformation not supported by facts  mosborne | 12/30/05
No its just controlled by an open source organization Oasis.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
OASIS is not an open source organization  mosborne | 01/02/06
You could have fooled me.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
You misunderstand, I think.  mosborne | 01/03/06
Nothing like spin  osreinstall | 01/03/06
Facts are not spin. They simply are.  mosborne | 01/03/06
Oasis is a not for profit corporation.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
Too bad you are not factual.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
LOL - don't think so  mosborne | 01/03/06
LOL - You wanna bet.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
Sure. happy  mosborne | 01/04/06
I wasn't born yesterday.  osreinstall | 01/04/06
Character assasinations  Spacely Spacerockets | 12/31/05
And you are attacking me personally because you  michael_t | 01/02/06
I guess we should take a lesson from this.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/30/05
The real issue is, open source thought they had a lock, they didn't!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
ODF != OSS  Robert Crocker | 12/30/05
And who controls it? OASIS, an open source org.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/31/05
Of which Microsoft is a sponsor!  Zogg | 12/31/05
Erm, and the standard...  zkiwi | 12/31/05
Can you say DUH?  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
OASIS is not an open source organization  mosborne | 01/02/06
Standards != Open source  Steve Z | 12/30/05
Trolls  Network Support | 12/31/05
Ok. I wont feed you if you dont feed me, troll.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
In the spirit of the season...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
You are nowhere near as happy as me, when I saw me.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
Communication was a disaster  Mark Miller | 01/01/06

What do you think?

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