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Touche
Looks like the whole character assassination plan is backfiring and the fallout will help, whether than hinder the ODF cause. Quinn's become a martyr. the resignation will spotlight the underhanded and corrupt tactics used by ?big money? (cough, cough) powers who's interests are diametrically opposed to those of the commonwealth.

Seems like this whole ordeal is going badly for the Microsoft. I wonder if anybody is throwing chairs in Redmond?
Posted by: Goldie_Simmons   Posted on: 12/29/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Touche  Goldie_Simmons | 12/29/05
Only an Open Source advocate could construe ...  ShadeTree | 12/29/05
You must be joking, a week from now...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
You're kidding, right?  techboy_z | 12/29/05
15 minutes of fame is over.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
I've made my career with proprietary  bjbrock | 12/29/05
Before you get excited,  bjbrock | 12/29/05
happy  nomorems | 12/29/05
ROI=just another buzzword ...  Too Old For IT | 12/30/05
Industries grow up.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I don't know why everyone loves  bjbrock | 12/29/05
Thats 15 minutes  nomorems | 12/29/05
Typical  node357 | 12/30/05
think again no_ax  hipparchus2001 | 12/29/05
I anxiously await the martyr's book  mighetto | 12/29/05
No surprise.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Not "wrong"  #_z | 12/29/05
I didn't use the word "wrong".  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
C'mon Anton  Tim Patterson | 12/29/05
Microsoft would not have been happy, of course...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I highly doubt it.  mosborne | 12/29/05
Sunshine patriots  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Yes, typically Microsoft.  nomorems | 12/29/05
Yes, wrong  IT_User | 12/29/05
Suppose he hadn't held the hearing(s)...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Would not have made an iota of differnece.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Agreed. (NT)  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Wrong  IT_User | 12/29/05
Umm, saying wrong i seasy, your proof?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Careful ~  nomorems | 12/29/05
You tell me  IT_User | 12/29/05
Organizational dynamics are different...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
That;'s what his former boss did  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
I'm not sure about the timing...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You're wrong...objectively!  techboy_z | 12/29/05
You could not be more wrong...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Style of Decision Making  mighetto | 12/29/05
Sometimes, sayings are not correct.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
Interesting what some support  Tim Patterson | 12/29/05
If I had been advising Mr. Quinn...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
thank goodness you weren't  mosborne | 12/29/05
You've never had to support...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I have done so many times actually  mosborne | 12/29/05
Then you know that good advice...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
another M$ crime!  Linux Geek | 12/29/05
Again?  nomorems | 12/29/05
CIO - CHIEF Information Officer - the buck stops there  el1jones | 12/29/05
Ironically, it's the opposition to Microsoft...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
When you work in a political environment, you can NOT ignore politics.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Not a political decision  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
You claim it was a purely technical decision ...  ShadeTree | 12/29/05
I think you hit it dead on.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Politics are in the private sector too.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
It became political  IT_User | 12/29/05
So you think hiding would have helped?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
But  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Not quite true...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
What were the technical merits that Microsoft's ...  ShadeTree | 12/29/05
Technical = Mass. lost the anti-trust suit.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Once again No_Ax spouts with no proof  nomorems | 12/29/05
RE: What were the technical merits that Microsoft's ...  Scott W | 01/01/06
RE: What were the technical merits that Microsoft's ...  Scott W | 01/01/06
RE: Scott W  ShadeTree | 01/03/06
"pretty", "almost solely"  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Are you still trying to argue technical reasons?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Are you still trying to defend meritless decisions?  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Have you ignored history?  Mark Miller | 01/01/06
So you are saying it doesn't matter how good something is technically?  Steve Z | 12/30/05
How much more evidence do you need(?)...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Mr Quinn was an agent of MA  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Agent in rebellion.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Simply not true, even Quinn disagrees with you.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Problem is responding to Mr. Crocker's argument...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You will get no real answers  nomorems | 12/29/05
Re: ... real answers.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
This is why I find it difficult to  mosborne | 12/29/05
To review:  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You merely reinforce my point.  mosborne | 12/29/05
You're agreeing with my criticism...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
I don't believe I am.  mosborne | 12/30/05
I criticize, you approve...  Anton Philidor | 12/30/05
Left out my closing para.  Anton Philidor | 12/30/05
RE: To review:  Scott W | 01/01/06
Hurried  Anton Philidor | 01/01/06
No  mosborne | 01/02/06
No  mosborne | 01/02/06
Role of users  Anton Philidor | 01/02/06
Balance is key  mosborne | 01/03/06
Of course it is...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Ignorant  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Ans you still seem to think your point matters...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Blunt Instrument  Harry Bardal | 12/29/05
And this matters in what way?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Uhh..Axe  nomorems | 12/29/05
Poor Axey; Just so sad..  nomorems | 12/29/05
Public impact made this a 'Political' decision  palmwarrior | 12/29/05
More than that, USERS didn't want it.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Users are included in both 'politcs' and 'Politics'  palmwarrior | 12/29/05
Had nothing to do with costs.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Try to see something... anything at all... from somebody else's perspective  palmwarrior | 12/29/05
Try to take your own advice.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
put the crackpipe down  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
Monkey, can't express a thought without names and insults?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
agreed  Flubnut | 12/29/05
You're making one big mistake...  techboy_z | 12/29/05
True, you gotta understand the ball park you play in.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
no_ax_...  mvaar | 12/29/05
That is one point of view.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
that IS a problem  mvaar | 12/29/05
Douglas MacArthur felt the same way too.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
MacArthur advised using nuclear bombs on China...  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
Don't you hate taking orders from a haberdasher.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
Ah, you mean like not allowing Churchill to say anything.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Churchill Leader of the Opposition  mighetto | 12/29/05
Um,mm, who is the highest ranking Military Officer in the US???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Nope - There is another  mighetto | 12/29/05
And the ELECTED person then runs the military.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Still subordinate to laws  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Ah, you mean like the President can't spy  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
The military's goals.  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
There's a difference between politics and vicious personal attacks.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/30/05
The whole point  SQLServer | 12/29/05
That's a real shame... truly  shawkins | 12/29/05
Not really...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
It was not just open formats  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
Users didn't want it...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Probably the same internal training budget they always use.  Zogg | 12/29/05
No, Quinn said it would take $ millions.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
"No" what? All I said was that there's probably a training budget already.  Zogg | 12/29/05
Actually, there wasn't it came out at the hearings  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
Actually, there wasn't it came out at the hearings  oldsysprog | 12/29/05
*Someone* must have an existing training budget.  Zogg | 12/30/05
It's Too Bad He Couldn't Withstand the Spotlight  jimc52@... | 12/29/05
Speak with a forked tongue...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Speak with a confused, ignorant tongue...  Taz_z | 12/29/05
Ah, you want me to point out your ignorance then?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Now now... OpenDocument isn't "one basket".  Zogg | 12/29/05
Of course it is.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
That argument is utterly pointless since  mosborne | 12/29/05
Agreed. It's a piece of pure scare-mongering.  Zogg | 12/29/05
Ah, so you are agreeing it's all the eggs in one basket. Thank you!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
If you mean by "all eggs in one basket" that  mosborne | 12/29/05
Your "straight" record has a curious kink in it...  Zogg | 12/29/05
Need Independent Format  jimc52@... | 12/29/05
There is, it's called XML  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
And you don't know the difference between a format and a language ...  George Mitchell | 12/29/05
Then the standards folks are stupid then???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
I am shocked by you George!  B.O.F.H. | 12/29/05
LOL. ODF limited for who?  mosborne | 12/29/05
Tell that to your customers that demand MS functions.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
Are they demanding *MS* functions or  mosborne | 12/29/05
You would be using IE if he demanded it.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
someone would, not necessarily me  mosborne | 12/29/05
I suppose you can quit.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
The corporate and government consumer of course.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
No, not hardly.  mosborne | 12/29/05
But you are not corporate America.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Your argument doesn't wash  mosborne | 12/29/05
Your reply doesn't wash...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
However  IT Scion | 12/29/05
Obvious  nomorems | 12/29/05
its about time he left  zzz1234567890 | 12/29/05
You mean, no reason *you* think is valid  escoles@... | 12/30/05
If this were a business...  rrrr | 12/29/05
Professional not Slave  mighetto | 12/29/05
Professional janitors agree...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Hypothisis and Theory  mighetto | 12/29/05
No, it's a fact  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Hiring Programmers  mighetto | 12/29/05
Sorry, but hte country doesn't agree with you.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Really? Which country is that?  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/30/05
Corporate Spiel  GTO_Patrick | 12/30/05
Where he went wrong...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Should pick a better source to quote  mosborne | 12/29/05
Love it!  nomorems | 12/29/05
Google isn't an end all or a verification  jmills@... | 12/29/05
You are correct, it isn't. However,  mosborne | 12/30/05
Microsoft can NOT use ODF in Mass.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
Oh really?  John Le'Brecage | 12/29/05
That's really a shame ...  George Mitchell | 12/29/05
Don's meaningless drivel  #_z | 12/29/05
Link please?  Robert Crocker | 12/29/05
Here is the Repository...  Still Lynn | 01/02/06
What about Kerberos then?  mosborne | 12/29/05
No_Ax  nomorems | 12/29/05
Absolutely, they voted with their wallet.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
I suppoise  nomorems | 12/29/05
Suppose anything you like, PROOF is in the buying.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
It is not FUD.  osreinstall | 12/29/05
It is FUD.  nomorems | 12/29/05
It is too  osreinstall | 12/29/05
You are almost correct...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
You and osreinstall are not correct (as usual)  barsteward | 12/30/05
Read the link I posted.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
No  zkiwi | 12/30/05
Not so!  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Here is a red herring, chase it...  Still Lynn | 12/30/05
Anything else.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Well, you're two for two so far...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Oops! Left out Star Office...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Not so Lynn  osreinstall | 12/31/05
3 for 3!  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
I do not need a history lesson and it is irrelavent.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
You should read your own URL postings  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
And who do you think will advise them.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
About not so Lynn  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
Same people, who cares about the hat.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Same People?  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
You would be amazed, Looneytoon.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Actually not much amazes me anymore  Looneytoon | 01/01/06
I always wondered why the state doesn't use closed bids to save money.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Closed bids  Looneytoon | 01/02/06
Yes, closed bids save money  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Arguments are getting circular  Looneytoon | 01/02/06
Not circular at all.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
This MA repository sounds like a typical Open Source distribution method.  Zogg | 01/04/06
Doesn't matter where you got the software from.  osreinstall | 01/04/06
That's really, really silly.  Zogg | 01/04/06
Zog, Apache is in the repository too.  osreinstall | 01/04/06
You are mistaken about many things  mosborne | 01/05/06
Are you pretending to be a lawyer now?  Zogg | 01/05/06
If you are one, I will not hire you.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
Key phrase in quote is "..running on.."  mosborne | 01/05/06
Perhaps how you look at it, mosborne.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
You could check it out for yourself rather than making a fool of youself!  B.O.F.H. | 01/05/06
Hey BOFH, do it the easier way.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
Which hurt more?  B.O.F.H. | 01/05/06
Nothing hurts at all.  osreinstall | 01/05/06
Read the Government Open Code Collaborative AGREEMENT  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
ODF is just a file format.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
I agree, it is a standard.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Message has been deleted.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
The GOCC is a collaborative.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Exactllky right, and you state the very reason to NOT use it.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
M$ is not.  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Now go look at the REPOSITORY!  Still Lynn | 12/30/05
Not just he repository...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Back on topic please....  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Even if that were true...  Feldon | 12/30/05
I guess you haven't heard of XML  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
MS has never tried to prevent its customers from accessing their data.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Well yes, but...  zkiwi | 12/30/05
People will use whatever is needed.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Well, you seem to have msunderstood...  zkiwi | 12/31/05
I can do that too.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
I agree with osreinstall, screw the tax payers!  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
BOFH, Licenses are cheap than custom tarballs.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Osreinstall, the issue is about file formats an not open v. commercial.  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
And you don't think ODF will evolve.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
The application is not the issue, it if file/data formats!  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
File format cannot remain static for all time. But the dopes will try.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
You are still harping on the wrong issues! User apps don't matter!  B.O.F.H. | 01/01/06
Fairness for all does matter.  osreinstall | 01/01/06
Osreinstall, your argument has achieved absurdity!  B.O.F.H. | 01/02/06
No it hasn't. But your reasoning is flawed.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Manners please, osreinstall.  Zogg | 01/02/06
Zog, you are full of it again.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Osreinstall, more lies and absurdity from you?  B.O.F.H. | 01/02/06
BOFH, more FUD and fecal matter than a crate of Christmas geese!  osreinstall | 01/02/06
Osreinstall, I don't know where to begin with your errors... so many...  B.O.F.H. | 01/02/06
BOFH, You never will get it. Cranium case is too small.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
osresintall, your posts leave me with one question:  B.O.F.H. | 01/03/06
BOFH, do you want to clean up your act?  osreinstall | 01/03/06
So answer the damn question!  B.O.F.H. | 01/03/06
Puritanical Upbringing? Surely you jest.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
re: Microsoft can NOT use ODF in Mass.  barsteward | 12/30/05
re: Microsoft can NOT use ODF in Mass.  barsteward | 12/30/05
You're smarter than this  Steve Z | 12/30/05
Right thing to do ...  George Mitchell | 12/29/05
MA and Munich  Anton Philidor | 12/29/05
You forgot the most important one.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
deep throat  mighetto | 12/29/05
Standards limit or eliminate innovation and competition.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/29/05
That's not how standards work  Feldon | 12/30/05
To do as you say means Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
which leads to the old software patents debate  Feldon | 12/30/05
And then the 3 E's still apply.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
the 3 E's means fear of competition and lack of quality.  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Nothing of the sort.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
No_Ax, time to put up or shut up!  B.O.F.H. | 12/31/05
What a complete crock.  mosborne | 12/30/05
The cracks in your crock...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Strange notion of cracks  mosborne | 12/30/05
Let me try one more time.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
that was a try?  mosborne | 12/30/05
As a programmer you should say 0 or more times...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
Oh. I get it now. Standards...  John Zern | 01/01/06
Amazing  mosborne | 01/02/06
You really don't have a clue about what you are ranting about!  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Clearly you are confused.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Care to try again?  B.O.F.H. | 12/30/05
Like TCP/IP, HTTP, and HTML?  Robert Crocker | 12/30/05
No_Ax analysis: he makes Mike Cox look like non-fiction  beerman_z | 12/29/05
Thanks for being another fan, it's appreciated.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
lol @ both  Feldon | 12/30/05
Always glad to give my fan club a chuckle.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
No doubt  Real World | 12/30/05
So you have other facts?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
if you posted any such facts yourself  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
You need to read the post where I quoted Quinn.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
I also read the site you linked  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
English lesson  Real World | 12/30/05
No, I asked you to show me yours.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Do us all a favor  Real World | 12/30/05
So you STGILL have nothing to offer other than insults???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
Moral to this story.....  IT Scion | 12/29/05
Techie in the limelight? GACK!!!  Too Old For IT | 12/30/05
re:Monkey, can't express a thought without names and insults?  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
As I said, spomeone with your limitations iws to be pitied.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
you don't believe...  Monkey_MCSE | 12/30/05
Can you do simple math?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
No wonder they named you monkey...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
slow for you old man  Monkey_MCSE | 01/01/06
Had to comment on one observation:  Anton Philidor | 01/01/06
It only shows that private businesses have  michael_t | 12/30/05
What are you talking about.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
Your talking to a rabid zealot, don't waste the time. NT  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
pot, kettle, black n/t  mosborne | 12/30/05
disinformation not supported by facts  mosborne | 12/30/05
No its just controlled by an open source organization Oasis.  osreinstall | 12/30/05
OASIS is not an open source organization  mosborne | 01/02/06
You could have fooled me.  osreinstall | 01/02/06
You misunderstand, I think.  mosborne | 01/03/06
Nothing like spin  osreinstall | 01/03/06
Facts are not spin. They simply are.  mosborne | 01/03/06
Oasis is a not for profit corporation.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
Too bad you are not factual.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
LOL - don't think so  mosborne | 01/03/06
LOL - You wanna bet.  osreinstall | 01/03/06
Sure. happy  mosborne | 01/04/06
I wasn't born yesterday.  osreinstall | 01/04/06
Character assasinations  Spacely Spacerockets | 12/31/05
And you are attacking me personally because you  michael_t | 01/02/06
I guess we should take a lesson from this.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 12/30/05
The real issue is, open source thought they had a lock, they didn't!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/30/05
ODF != OSS  Robert Crocker | 12/30/05
And who controls it? OASIS, an open source org.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/31/05
Of which Microsoft is a sponsor!  Zogg | 12/31/05
Erm, and the standard...  zkiwi | 12/31/05
Can you say DUH?  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
OASIS is not an open source organization  mosborne | 01/02/06
Standards != Open source  Steve Z | 12/30/05
Trolls  Network Support | 12/31/05
Ok. I wont feed you if you dont feed me, troll.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
In the spirit of the season...  Still Lynn | 12/31/05
You are nowhere near as happy as me, when I saw me.  osreinstall | 12/31/05
Communication was a disaster  Mark Miller | 01/01/06

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