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I am pretty sure the only point you had was the one at the end of your middle finger, pointed at Microsoft.

But, OK, fine, if you insist:
"you can't blame the stupid idiots who use m$ crapware because that's all they know"

Prove it. Maybe they choose to use it, even if they do know other software. There are a variety of valid reasons to choose any one package over another, not just the ones you would find valid. Simply because they do not make the same choice you do does NOT make them idiots.

"you must put blame on the corporate and gov't decision makers for choosing m$ without seeing all of the other available options."

Or, perhaps, they looked at and continue to look at other available options, and when they put together the total costs of switching, which far exceed the costs of the TOOLS uses (software is just a tool), they cannot justify it yet. It isn't all about costs, either. The options that exist today did NOT exist if you go back too many years (that's the big point against MS, remember? that they abused their monopoly-like position to squash and/or hinder the other options?) and depending on how much time, effort, training, secondary development, client buy-in, and, yes, costs, a company has invested, switching may be a difficult proposition. If things are working, and for many they are, there really isn't an impetus to switch, either. Most companies have bigger fish to fry, so it isn't high priority to even consider it without a valid business reason.

"m$ software has the highest tco in the industry, bar none..."
I know many who would agree with that statement, and many who would disagree, who have analyzed and used both. Each company and user is different, so a blanket statement like this cannot be made. Many companies buy MS, implement it, admin it properly, and have no further issues. Many, do not. Some, switch to other systems, and have more problems for a variety of reasons, and wish they hadn't switched. Some, switch and everything works flawlessly. Each situation has to be evaluated on its own merits.

I noticed you didn't address my points regarding your delivery. You will never convince anyone by being a rube. Too many on ZDnet (mainly on the "I hate MS" side, although the "I love MS" side has its real winners, too) present themselves in such a manner that they completely discredit their cause. Linux is a serious O/S and needs to be taken seriously. OS/X, the same. MS and its products have a lot of issues that deserve serious discussion. There is room for valid debate of issues, and there is no need to resort to simple name-calling and other such foolishness.

Imagine sending a memo to the CEO of a company in which you stated:

"We need to move off of Micro$oft product$ immediately, becau$e they are like, evil, and Gate$BallmerAllchin i$ the AntiChri$t. Anyone who use$ Micro$oft product$ is a $tupid idiot and $hould be locked up, or at the lea$t the bu$ine$$ leader$ who led them to that point should be ($orry, no offence meant, Mr. CEO) becaus$e they are all blithering moron$. Linux is good and great and God himself has indwelt Mr. Torvalds, so that is the way we should go."

How far do you think it would get you? Why should it get you any further in an online discussion?

The competition in this arena is what will benefit us all. Linux and OS/X are where they are today because people are searching for and contributing to an alternative to Microsoft. MS is finally -- but very slowly -- fixing problems that have existed for years because of the threat of real competition. They aren't just going to shrivel up and disappear, as many would like, so it behooves ALL of us in this industry to see them improve. Even if you don't use their products, others do and will continue to do so, and if they have problems, it can affect all of us directly and indirectly.
Posted by: pschroeder@...   Posted on: 10/23/03 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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True, to a point...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Very good advice...  John Le'Brecage | 10/22/03
Are the MVPs capable of using this benefit?  solprovider | 10/22/03
M$ trying to sell its cr@pware  MarcB_z | 10/22/03
sell?  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
Let me explain....  MarcB_z | 10/23/03
Let me explain  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
:Let an MVP explain...  Confused by religion | 10/23/03
Microsoft desperation growing  jellyclock | 10/22/03
what?  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
simple minds...  stephen732@... | 10/23/03
Read on  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
and your point is?  stephen732@... | 10/23/03
That...  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
Memo to Allchinballmergates  Squawkbox | 10/23/03
Too little, too late  Chad_z | 10/22/03
These new talkbacks can't remember my password  Patrick Jones | 10/22/03
Subject  none none | 10/22/03
Spare me...  Mike Cox | 10/22/03
Spare you? Why?  zkiwi | 10/22/03
Good grief, does anyone stay on topic?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Yeah, you'd think you were reading posts....  Jose Jimenez | 10/22/03
Were you making an on topic comment?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Let's see, it was a direct reply....  Jose Jimenez | 10/22/03
Isn't posting about offtopic posts...  Chad_z | 10/23/03
LOL! Axis-Boy's reduced to nit-picking about OT? M$hills, such big thinkers  dicktaurus@... | 10/23/03
I didn't stray off topic, "No Axe"  jellyclock | 10/22/03
This was about security?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
whatever  Enton Eller | 10/22/03
Interesting 'whatever' is used when you are wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
I would reply to that if I could decipher your gibberish.  Enton Eller | 10/22/03
Don't bother...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Multiple personality disorder?  Enton Eller | 10/22/03
Axe to grind  Dave P. | 10/22/03
Yup  Enton Eller | 10/22/03
National security  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
only the corporate decision makers  stephen732@... | 10/23/03
sigh  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
no rebuttal?  stephen732@... | 10/23/03
Rebuttal  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
Very much on topic...  John Le'Brecage | 10/22/03
Await no more, I am here.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Becoming an MVP  Jose Jimenez | 10/22/03
Point taken. Answer the questions...  John Le'Brecage | 10/22/03
You assume much  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/23/03
but  ryusen | 10/23/03
Yes, exactly...  John Le'Brecage | 10/23/03
Common Sense?  John Le'Brecage | 10/23/03
A couple of points.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/23/03
DTS: A couple of points...  John Le'Brecage | 10/23/03
RE: Await no more, I am here.  Iain_Peters | 10/23/03
did you?  stephen732@... | 10/23/03
SOME code  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
Good point. Not complete though.  John Le'Brecage | 10/22/03
more choices  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
Very good.  John Le'Brecage | 10/23/03
MVPs with code  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
Now there are no Linux advantages left!  Mike Cox | 10/22/03
In as nice a way as possible, you're a liar.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
YES!  Mike Cox | 10/22/03
The problem iwth lies...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
The problem with being gullible......  Jose Jimenez | 10/22/03
Hmmm, maybe children think it's 'funny'.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Are you new here? You seem lost.  John Le'Brecage | 10/22/03
and me...  ryusen | 10/23/03
Reply to ZZ...  John Le'Brecage | 10/23/03
nt - sounds like Windows 1.0  Len Rooney | 10/22/03
You are so busted!  tic swayback | 10/22/03
*chuckles*  John Le'Brecage | 10/22/03
RE: *chuckles*  Iain_Peters | 10/23/03
Is Mike Cox back as Jay Cash? We missed you. Welcome to the new new ZDNET..  Plain Logic | 10/22/03
Is this sounding familiar ?  BitTwiddler | 10/23/03
MVPs --- too much work.  michael-t | 10/22/03
Sorry, your barking uop the wrong tree.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/22/03
Objective of peeking under the hood?  michael-t | 10/23/03
Under the hood  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
But it does work  Loverock Davidson | 10/22/03
Free time  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
Benevolent MVPs  michael-t | 10/23/03
Please understand  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
Work? In what sense?  zkiwi | 10/22/03
MVP program...  pschroeder@... | 10/22/03
And the answer is  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/23/03
600 MVP eyes vice 1M+ Linux eyes  MarcB_z | 10/23/03
Off-point answer  michael-t | 10/23/03
Bingo! (NT)  pschroeder@... | 10/23/03
BUT, "...they can't make changes or use it..." [YAWN...]  dicktaurus@... | 10/22/03
China Syndrome  FilledOut | 10/22/03
What's the point?  BitTwiddler | 10/23/03

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