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M$ can't compete on merit


There is no good M$ product.
Everything good is open source, but M$ would not allow people access to it.
But Linux will change that, and M$ will die.
Posted by: screaming silence   Posted on: 11/18/03 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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M$ can't compete on merit  screaming silence | 11/18/03
Hmm  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
W W W . L I N U X C A D . C O M  unixguy@... | 11/18/03
I rather enjoyed that...  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
I know many  voska | 11/18/03
Yagotta Be Kidding me..  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
RE: Yagotta Be Kidding me..  WhoIsDaMan | 11/19/03
Mr. Carroll is about as clueless as you are.  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
I wave a poppy seed bagel in your general direction..  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
So you do not understand the network effect???  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
Tell me then,  Patrick Jones | 11/18/03
uh, because it's by design?  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
You forgot one item  NoB$ | 11/18/03
you speak as if being non-removeable is an advantage  ryusen | 11/18/03
No doughnut for you  Patrick Jones | 11/18/03
Because...  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
PS...  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
You're still thinking monolithic app  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/18/03
I only see one problem here  voska | 11/18/03
Quicktime Plugin for Media Player  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
How about WMF plugin for QuickTime?  Fred Fredrickson | 11/18/03
Ok, but where do you draw the line???  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
Competition vs. Consumer Protection  rthorat@... | 11/18/03
but...  ryusen | 11/18/03
BOGUS ARGUMENT! "Consumer protection?!?" No, "Free Markets"  dicktaurus@... | 11/18/03
Useless post...  rthorat@... | 11/19/03
RE: Useless post...  WhoIsDaMan | 11/19/03
problem with standards  gnome n. clayture | 11/18/03
You are still missing the point...  Patrick Jones | 11/18/03
The problem...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
my perspective  in-DUH-vidual | 11/19/03
MS Hidden API Interfaces...  dsentman@... | 11/20/03
The problem..  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Not that definition of performance  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Some agreement...  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Blackbox Standards  in-DUH-vidual | 11/19/03
Hypocrisy  Harry Bardal | 11/18/03
Re: You're still thinking monolithic app  Mark Miller | 12/02/03
Bolted in...  rthorat@... | 11/18/03
open stadards  ryusen | 11/18/03
Re: Open Standards  rthorat@... | 11/18/03
well...  ryusen | 11/18/03
Re: well...  rthorat@... | 11/18/03
that noble dream  ryusen | 11/18/03
Re: Open Standards  mike_ohanlon_z | 11/19/03
Nice thought...  Patrick Jones | 11/18/03
How many times does Microsoft have to be caught infringing?  ordaj@... | 11/18/03
You're too funny.. happy  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
Great article.  rthorat@... | 11/18/03
Not really  Fred Fredrickson | 11/18/03
History's largest criminal monopoly...  moiety | 11/18/03
And if you can't beat 'em...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/18/03
Doh!!!  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
it's hardly name-calling when  moiety | 11/18/03
Gee, and the courts are always right?  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
but...  ryusen | 11/18/03
...truth notwithstanding :o)  Jack-Booted EULA | 11/18/03
If you can't beat 'em... bolt everything  MacCanuck | 11/19/03
Re: History's largest criminal monopoly...  rapson | 11/18/03
hmm, don't like the sound of it ?  moiety | 11/18/03
Is your code as bloated as your articles  bidemytime | 11/18/03
Code bloat...  rthorat@... | 11/18/03
I found it just right.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
I am a slow reader  bidemytime | 11/18/03
We'll Wait  Don Bradley | 11/18/03
Okay, I'll get right on it  bidemytime | 11/19/03
Actually, I have to change my offer  bidemytime | 11/19/03
Antitrust, law-breaking, remedies, future deterrence  umashekhar | 11/18/03
Do those laws actually help anything?  voska | 11/18/03
Sure it does..  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
Regarding past use of antitrust  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/18/03
And here is your main problem!  serpentmage | 11/18/03
I see your mistake...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
I think I see why you are confused....  B.O.F.H. | 11/18/03
My Mistake????  serpentmage | 11/18/03
In other words...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Confusing economic policy with criminal law  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/18/03
Come on John...get real already  GRindinAxTaRupy | 11/18/03
Look back at the Rockefeller's road to success  tero_t_vaananen@... | 11/18/03
EC and Monopolies  Frihet | 11/18/03
You might just have a point...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Mr. Carroll  FirstNLastN | 11/18/03
Europe will fall to Linux one way or another.  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
It wouldn't be the first time  Mark Miller | 12/01/03
I beg to differ ...  wallyweb@... | 11/18/03
Yes...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
You mean..  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Again ... I beg to differ  wallyweb@... | 11/19/03
No...  bgoss@... | 11/19/03
Hit it squar on hte head. Media Player is too good.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Stop it..  Delaware Boy | 11/18/03
Oops, my bad.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
hardly  ryusen | 11/18/03
Should they 'unbolt' networking?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
maybe they should!  ryusen | 11/18/03
Good on you, but not me.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
how does it destroy your choice?  ryusen | 11/18/03
Not "sense"... should be "scents"...  MacCanuck | 11/19/03
No, he's not...  WhoIsDaMan | 11/20/03
re: Media Player is too good.  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
I see your mistake Iain.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
You see nothing at all  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
Where we disagree then..  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
how many timesq  ryusen | 11/18/03
Talk about spin...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
very silly...  ryusen | 11/18/03
Yes you are but I deal with it.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
re: axe  ryusen | 11/18/03
I see your mistake No_Ax  Mack DaNife | 11/20/03
But if Media Player is too good...  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
Nice try, foolish but still nice.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
How does WMP promote the sales of Windows?  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
Incorrect analysis  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Utter garbage  Robert Crocker | 11/19/03
no disagreement  ryusen | 11/19/03
Yours Too  Mack DaNife | 11/20/03
Wrong answer  WhoIsDaMan | 11/20/03
Don, Don, Don  bgoss@... | 11/18/03
Simple question, simple answer.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Simple question - answer doesn't work  bgoss@... | 11/18/03
Almost...  Patrick Jones | 11/18/03
Your memory is playing tricks on you.  Mr.E._z | 11/18/03
More Response  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Selective or exclusionary memory John  MacCanuck | 11/19/03
John, you are forgetting the truth  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
Re: John, you are forgetting the truth  Mark Miller | 12/03/03
There is more to it. Jealousy is a big issue.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
If Jelousy helps, so much the better.  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
Thanks, your a great example.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
No Ax to Grind? I don't think so  bidemytime | 11/18/03
How to know when you've won.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Then I guess...  bidemytime | 11/18/03
Tell me...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
I don't have to go to Europe to make this judgment  bidemytime | 11/18/03
You need do nothing to have an opinion.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
RE: There is more to it. Jealousy is a big issue.  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
More holes than swiss cheese.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Unfortunately ..  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
Pulease!!! Get a fricking life!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
More "scents" from Bit...  MacCanuck | 11/19/03
wordy but essentially correct  bthomasmo@... | 11/18/03
But John...  bidemytime | 11/18/03
Whats the next application to be part of the OS?  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
What ever the customers want.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
People are not as free as you think.  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
So your point is...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
(NT) Whatever best promotes lock-in and monopoly, of course! :o)  Jack-Booted EULA | 11/18/03
How about the application server?  Mark Miller | 12/01/03
A profound misunderstanding...  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
Yes, you have made a large one.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Don't let facts inform your arguments...  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
Aw Robert, I see where you went wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
(NT) Back to your trademark name-calling again...  Jack-Booted EULA | 11/18/03
Who went wrong?!?  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
You are confused.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
NWOR  Robert Crocker | 11/19/03
Sneak preview of John Carroll's next article  jellyclock | 11/18/03
As always, well thought out and articulated...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Oh do go on Bit  jellyclock | 11/19/03
john, john, john...  ryusen | 11/18/03
An open question to Linux fans...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
What about MAC/BSD fans?  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
Bogus argument at best...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
RE: Bogus argument at best...  Iain_Peters | 11/18/03
I see your problem.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
So...  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
My experience  voska | 11/19/03
Bit knows bogus  MacCanuck | 11/19/03
Well yeah, I'm talking to you aren't I?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Ouch... Bit Belligerently Bites Back  MacCanuck | 11/20/03
depends...  ryusen | 11/18/03
Read it, you are still wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
read it...  ryusen | 11/18/03
Nothing to 'get', we disagree.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
exactly  ryusen | 11/18/03
You are the one that doesn't 'get it'.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
maybe  ryusen | 11/18/03
I hate these new talkbacks  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
I see Bits Point here  voska | 11/19/03
I see Bits Point here  voska | 11/19/03
bits points, but...  ryusen | 11/19/03
Another straw man Don  bgoss@... | 11/18/03
Strawman my behind.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
If you insist - a Strawman is your behind  bgoss@... | 11/18/03
Why is it Either , Or  Mack DaNife | 11/19/03
Simple.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Simple - yes it is, it's even simpler than that.  bgoss@... | 11/19/03
I don't see you logic here  voska | 11/19/03
Sad, not one straight answer in the bunch.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Huh?  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Not a straight question either  DonnieBoy | 11/19/03
An open question to Microsoft fans...  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
Unlike others, I'll answer honestly.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Come on Robert, tell me again...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Hypocrisy, thy name is RealMedia  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
You're logic is fails again here  voska | 11/19/03
Longhorn's probably going to kill the browser  Mark Miller | 12/03/03
Isn't it funny  NemesisNL | 11/19/03
Sorry, that dog won't hunt.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Sorry, most people do not want two browsers on thier computer.  DonnieBoy | 11/19/03
Two-Bit response  Robert Crocker | 11/19/03
Uhm... Because it's not about the product, primarily?  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
A few reasons  voska | 11/19/03
C'mon, I talked about that already  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
Why do cars have paint?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
I don't think so  voska | 11/19/03
Maybe more if Microsoft screws up...  dsentman@... | 11/20/03
paint...  ryusen | 11/19/03
paint...  ryusen | 11/19/03
When..  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Realplayer for Mac  tic swayback | 11/19/03
Lies, damned lies and Bit's opinion  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
answer  screaming silence | 11/18/03
Sorry, you are wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Re: An open question to Linux fans...  none none | 11/18/03
To simplify, no it is not.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
YES  voska | 11/19/03
depending on your business, yes...  B.O.F.H. | 11/19/03
I'm extremely disappointed with this piece.  berck | 11/18/03
ARRRRGH!  Robert Crocker | 11/18/03
But, I love you, you love me....  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Barney's in rehab...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Take it easy, John.  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
Dude, you really must love the sound of your own typing  Martin L | 11/18/03
Like the talkback posters you mean?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Find one respected economist to agree monopolies are good for software.  DonnieBoy | 11/18/03
Well, lets ask the courts shall we.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
Courts were asked, DOJ caved in  bgoss@... | 11/18/03
State AG's 'caved in'? Don't think so...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Typical Don response - didn't bother to answer the question  bgoss@... | 11/19/03
Here's the evidence  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
Thanks Fred... that Bit of info says it all  MacCanuck | 11/20/03
Attn: John Carrol, must read this... AMAZING!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
I'll give it a half hour, but...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
you lose, your bet  ryusen | 11/18/03
You miss the point completely.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
do you actually want to refute my point?  ryusen | 11/18/03
Do yourself a favor ZZ, READ!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
so tell me  ryusen | 11/18/03
For what it is worth....  B.O.F.H. | 11/18/03
Can you say Hypocrisy?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
BUWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA....  Jack-Booted EULA | 11/18/03
Cute, anything of value to say?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
again, he must have learned from you .)  ryusen | 11/18/03
Exposing hypocrisy is always valuable.....  Jack-Booted EULA | 11/18/03
LOL  d_jedi | 11/18/03
Wow, thanks for the research  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/18/03
That IS interesting  NemesisNL | 11/19/03
You know little about programming, and it shows.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
please leave things you know nothing of alone  NemesisNL | 11/19/03
An HTML 'programmer'. I see...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
An HTML 'programmer'  NemesisNL | 11/19/03
problems with markup and scripting langauges, a little unclear?  B.O.F.H. | 11/19/03
No, you don't..  d_jedi | 11/19/03
Just a few points...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Just a few points...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
No, you are way off  Mark Miller | 12/01/03
Obviously, RealMedai agrees with you.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
What research...  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Do YOUR research.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Actually,  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Easy / hard, they did it the MS way.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
What does that have to do anything?  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Exactly!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Alot...  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
The answer is so simple.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
The answer IS simple - it's just not your answer  bgoss@... | 11/19/03
Because...  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Stable indeed  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
To Patrick  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Yep, these new talkbacks are a doozy  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Benficiaries?!?  Robert Crocker | 11/19/03
Is that why they use...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Wrong, John  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
I know you were addressing John,  rapson | 11/20/03
There is a difference..  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
No difference at all.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
That's funny..  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
You aren't listening...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Ok, now we are getting somewhere  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
No really...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
I hate these new talkbacks  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Requirement driven by MS itself  Robert Crocker | 11/19/03
Or, it makes sense to use one method.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Aw, poor ZZ, down to insulting as a last resort.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/18/03
the differnece is  ryusen | 11/18/03
2+2=4 Do you need a site?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
and again...  ryusen | 11/19/03
Hey, if it makes you happy...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
thank you i will  ryusen | 11/19/03
Let me re-word  Hard Cider | 11/18/03
Good refreshing read..  d_jedi | 11/18/03
Amazing this argument keeps going on  Anton Philidor | 11/18/03
A small disagreement.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
With that clarification, agreed.  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
Consider though..  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Missed the point Anton  Fred Fredrickson | 11/19/03
Didn't miss it; you're making a new point  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
See the MIDI vulnerability  Robert Crocker | 11/20/03
people seem to forget  lmaxwell | 11/21/03
Actually HP can't *disallow* it  dscherf | 11/21/03
we just setting record strait  lmaxwell | 11/23/03
Open letter to the author  none none | 11/18/03
Windows still monolithic...  stmueller | 11/19/03
Hmmm, maybe, but then that is their choice.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Hey, MS users, get it... they got what they got....  mlindl | 11/19/03
Hmmm, you need a lesson I suppose.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
Bad arguemnts start from bad assumptions.  Mack DaNife | 11/19/03
His assumptions aren't bad, yours are questionable  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
Your logic is incomplete  Fred Fredrickson | 11/19/03
I disagree, but thoughtful comments  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
Sorry, didn't finish editing  Anton Philidor | 11/19/03
Not at all  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
Misguided too  Fred Fredrickson | 11/20/03
I disagree  seriously | 11/19/03
I see your mistake.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
MS held a gun to the PC companies' head  seriously | 11/19/03
Again, I make a simple point to consider.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
MS held a gun to the PC companies' head  seriously | 11/19/03
You are mistaken John.  Tim Patterson | 11/19/03
Thanks everyone for an INCREDIBLE debate  John Carroll ZDNet Moderator | 11/19/03
Good luck to ya...  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
NOOOOO  ryusen | 11/19/03
Thank You John...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
FLASH - Bit is Ballmer on half rations of Valium  MacCanuck | 11/19/03
Not design, but marketing  dmhenderson2 | 11/19/03
There will never be a level playing field.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/19/03
partially agree  ryusen | 11/19/03
Not really...  Patrick Jones | 11/19/03
Hard cases make bad law...  dsentman@... | 11/19/03
Re: Hard cases make bad law...  none none | 11/19/03
Open letter to John Carroll  Fred Fredrickson | 11/19/03
Gotta agree with Fred  IT_User | 11/19/03
Blasted lack of preview!  IT_User | 11/19/03
Gosh, that's refreshing  rapson | 11/19/03
I agree  lmaxwell | 11/21/03
ms is giving the products away "FREE"  lmaxwell | 11/23/03
Could someone please...  dsentman@... | 11/27/03
Is John qualified to talk all these?  krisan | 02/15/04
Is John qualified to talk all these?  krisan | 02/15/04

What do you think?

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