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Where I disagree with this article
Is the assertion that newer video codecs only achieve a 50% compression advantage over MPEG2. Do you have any data to back this up?

The general consenus for years has been that MPEG4-generation codecs typically achieve at 10x compression improvement over MPEG2 for the same quality output.

Clearly, that must be a factor considered carefully in this report.

I challenge anyone but the most obsessive videophile to distinguish between a downloaded Xbox Live 720p video and the 720p playback of an HD-DVD.

In fact, if your numbers are correct - isn't the Xbox 720p file actually a higher bitrate to resolution ratio than the HD-DVD and BluRay discs? (which store their data at a higher bit-rate, but at 1080p).

In that case, the disc-based files may have the advantage on larger 1080p sets, but will actually be worse off on a 720p set (or a smaller display at a viewing distance where the added resolution doesn't help as much as the higher bitrate).
Posted by: threedaysdwn   Posted on: 01/19/08 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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What IS HD?  Otwoh | 01/18/08
Technically true but...  cornpie | 01/18/08
they do?  LDCMobile | 01/18/08
Wrong, broadcast services are usually 1080i or 720p  georgeou | 01/18/08
Not so  frank_s | 01/18/08
Huh?  Bigshott | 02/19/08
Most people don't see it.  hulse_kevin | 01/18/08
Most viewers are still watching ...  mwagner@... | 01/18/08
You're wrong about that 17" computer monitor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Where I disagree with this article  threedaysdwn | 01/19/08
The industry would like you to believe there is a 2 to 1 advantage  georgeou | 01/19/08
I don't care what codec you use, you can't get around the low bit-rate limi  georgeou | 01/18/08
+1  toadlife | 01/18/08
George is 100% right  wackoae | 01/19/08
Your nuts  IUseComputers | 01/28/08
It's well known that the PSNR is at best 1.5x better for H.264  georgeou | 02/04/08
4 mbps H.264 may be better  wingc@... | 02/05/08
Lack of Understanding or Understanding Lack ?  pobstar1@... | 01/18/08
Thanks, well said  georgeou | 01/18/08
Fallowing You on that for sure.  pobstar1@... | 01/18/08
AI?  richvball44 | 01/19/08
I'm proud of my 50" Pansonic plasma  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
HD uses  Schnazzer | 01/18/08
Why Pay Comcast  notsofast | 01/18/08
What is "peak power"?  kd5auq | 01/18/08
Marketing, Never Trust Marketing  codeguy007 | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  bdick@... | 01/18/08
ATSC vs. DVB-t  NetArch. | 01/18/08
Sorry, will correct it  georgeou | 01/18/08
Maybe they just mean 16x9  Michael Kelly | 01/18/08
No, they can't tell that either because these new TVs stretch the signal  georgeou | 01/18/08
Good point (nt)  Michael Kelly | 01/18/08
That's True  carrilion | 01/21/08
Not exactly  FirstNLastN | 01/18/08
It's not a 2 to 1 advantage  georgeou | 01/18/08
(nt)Hope you didn't delete the mpeg2 originals  toadlife | 01/18/08
You're talking recompression  CobraA1 | 01/19/08
... continued  FirstNLastN | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
Math error  VersatileSimplicity | 01/18/08
Bits or Bytes, check your math  georgeou | 01/18/08
I don't know about your assumptions  public@... | 01/20/08
720p should be higher bit-rate than DVD to be acceptable  georgeou | 01/18/08
Wrong  crashuk@... | 01/19/08
Takes slightly more storage, but not twice as much  georgeou | 01/19/08
Now who actually offers 1080p?  LDCMobile | 01/18/08
1080p = 1080i (sometimes)  Cyraxote | 01/18/08
no, it depends on the signal  ramarc | 01/18/08
1080i = 540  whcressall@... | 01/18/08
That is incorrect  threedaysdwn | 01/19/08
Phenomena is plural; don't watch sports.  ýlysdexia | 01/28/08
There's some WMV9 material in 1080p  bulk@... | 01/18/08
Blu-ray is 40 mbps 1080p, ATSC HD broadcast is 19 mbps 1080i  georgeou | 01/18/08
What about 720p ATSC?  Michael Kelly | 01/18/08
The total signal is the same 19.2 megabits  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Actually, 720p allows for lower compression ratios  georgeou | 01/18/08
Real HDTV  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Setting the bar too low  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Thanks for the link!  georgeou | 01/18/08
You're right on the money, George  SteveMak | 01/18/08
A few questions  itpro_z | 01/18/08
Probably not compression  RocketEater | 01/18/08
I really don't understand...  MalumRegnat\ | 01/18/08
HD broadcasts are different from downloads or streaming on demand  georgeou | 01/18/08
Point is that you won't be happy with 4 mbps 720p  georgeou | 01/18/08
Dumb Question: What about the trailers on apple.com?  roystonlodge | 01/18/08
Sometimes they offer really short clips that are 8 mbps  georgeou | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  mikepaul | 01/18/08
Someone missed the point completely  georgeou | 01/18/08
Hmmm  Skullet | 01/18/08
Verizon offers 15 mbps HD video streaming on demand  georgeou | 01/18/08
I think your missing the point George.  Skullet | 01/18/08
This is not spliting hairs, I'm telling you bit-rate is a limiting factor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Thanks for muddying the waters a little more  Vurbal@... | 01/18/08
3 to 1 advantage is BS  georgeou | 01/18/08
And the resolution issue?  Vurbal@... | 01/18/08
Over compressed high resolution looks like low resolution  georgeou | 01/18/08
That's not what you wrote  Vurbal@... | 01/18/08
Actually, overcompressed HD does look a lot like SD upconverted  georgeou | 01/19/08
George is fairly wrong, because...  CowLauncher | 01/18/08
High Resolution with low bit-rate equals low fidelity  georgeou | 01/18/08
That's a misconception George...  CowLauncher | 01/18/08
You're fooling yourself if you think you can get good HD at low bit-rates  georgeou | 01/18/08
Have watched any George?  CowLauncher | 01/18/08
I've watched quite a bit, and it's fake HD  georgeou | 01/18/08
Problem is . . .  CobraA1 | 01/19/08
Here you go:  CobraA1 | 01/19/08
You're right, and you can see the difference on a 19" LCD  georgeou | 01/19/08
I know the difference between bits and bytes...  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
720p at half the bit-rate is lower fidelity than 480i  georgeou | 01/18/08
bit rate not only key factor though...  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
It's not the only factor, but it's a limiting factor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Ya'll are a little Cynical: What this really means is...  stormculture | 01/18/08
HD "ought" to be better than DVD  georgeou | 01/18/08
Eh, you're both right.  JTrack3d | 01/18/08
The 4 minute claim is nonsense to begin with.  georgeou | 01/18/08
I agree with you!  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
8mbps 720p VC-1 or MPEG4-AVC/H.264 is decent.  georgeou | 01/18/08
1.5mbits/sec  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
The ABC stuff is 1.5 mbps or lower 720p video  georgeou | 01/18/08
What a good compressionist can do with 2Mbit/sec  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
Animations don't count as video  georgeou | 01/18/08
Yup, Elephant's Dream isn't Citizen Kane  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
It's a lot worse than my DVDs  georgeou | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  MC_z | 01/18/08
Pundits vs. Firsthand Experience  hulse_kevin | 01/18/08
My experience with 360 720p movies was good  dhavleak@... | 01/18/08
7GB per movie means high bitrate  aitor_ibarra | 01/18/08
I rounded off to 8  georgeou | 01/18/08
I updated for XBOX360  georgeou | 01/18/08
good stuff..  dhavleak@... | 01/18/08
Updated note about XBOX360 - nt  georgeou | 01/18/08
The Internet is DC node stuff  BALTHOR | 01/18/08
Anen  vicw926a4@... | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  christopher.j@... | 01/18/08
You're looking for multicasting  Knorthern Knight | 01/18/08
Costs Of LIVE8 Scenario?  christopher.j@... | 01/19/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  rodfrank@... | 01/18/08
Bit-rate is a HUGE factor  georgeou | 01/18/08
Yes Sheep  codeguy007 | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  domlanic@... | 01/18/08
Same marketing nonsense, Flash still uses video compression technology  georgeou | 01/18/08
HD LIE  domlanic@... | 01/18/08
Doesn't even take regulation, just a few stiff fines here and there will do  georgeou | 01/18/08
George is right!  ballmerclone2@... | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  bcroner | 01/18/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  nori.anand@... | 01/18/08
Beware of George Ou and don't believe his articles!  Grayson Peddie | 01/18/08
TechExec2?  thetruthhurts | 01/19/08
Your point isn't entirely off, but your math sure is.  photo@... | 01/19/08
WRONG, you're assuming the extra bit-rate is wasted on those repeat frame  georgeou | 01/19/08
Sigh...  threedaysdwn | 01/19/08
Upscaling by itself isn't a good thing, but starting with double bit-rate  georgeou | 01/19/08
The solution  skris88@... | 01/19/08
BT is similar to multicasting in the sense that it takes load off server  georgeou | 01/20/08
But I agree with you that the word HD shouldn't be abused  georgeou | 01/20/08
******** Title  oxytotem@... | 01/20/08
Xbox 360 hd downloads  d0x360@... | 01/20/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  duanedeen@... | 01/20/08
I feel sorry for you George  mankydonut@... | 01/20/08
Would be nice to have an HD basic, standard, full label  georgeou | 01/20/08
Informative, nothing else needs to be said. (NT)  ju1ce | 01/20/08
DVDs are undercompressed in the first place  Knocks | 01/20/08
Lower bit-rates are fine for people who steal the content  georgeou | 01/20/08
The algorithms used are very clever...  Mikael_z | 01/23/08
Or you can just rent your HD Netflix  georgeou | 01/23/08
Depends on where you draw the line  Mikael_z | 01/24/08
Wireless Communications, Networking and Mobile Computing  wxm0907@... | 01/20/08
Symposium on Information System & Management  wxm0907@... | 01/20/08
back to DVD  _JimB_ | 01/23/08
It is HD this article is BS  puggsly | 02/19/08
RE: Don't believe the low bit-rate 'HD' lie  skellener@... | 02/19/08
Verizon offers full HD Video on Demand over their FiOS data  georgeou | 04/07/08

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