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Resurrecting the already disproven NAT strawman argument again?
NAT is not forgery and you know it. NAT is like the corporate mailroom. If someone wants to send you a letter, they do not need to know your room # or even what building you're in. Hell's bells, they don't even need to know your name. They simply send it to "Technical Director of ZDNet." When you send mail out, do you specifically include your name, floor, and room # on your mail? Or do you simply let return mail go through your mailroom? Does the USPS even deliver direct to your office? Where is the forgery? Be specific and cite examples.

On the other hand, Comcast is forging packets. Those packets exist for no other reason than to disrupt communications. For the end users the packets appear to have originated with the other client, and not from a third party.

Perhaps that's why Comcast is facing a class action lawsuit.

"This isn?t content- or protocol-based ?discrimination?, it?s complete content and protocol neutral and clearly falls under the category of reasonable network management."
Would you let someone send a letter to your personnel department saying "I QUIT!!!" and simply sign your name to it? Keep in mind that they're also sending you a letter that seems to originate with personnel. The contents of that letter state "YOU'RE FIRED!!!" If someone thinks you're overpaid, they might consider it a legitimate personnel management technique. There is after all, only so much money lying around, and it just wouldn't do to have too much of it going to any one individual.


I'm willing to compromise with Comcast. I'm leaving them. I, unlike the majority, actually have another cable provider in my area. As a bonus, the new service will be less expensive.


As for the pay for what you use concept, that'll never work. Just ask the power company, gas company, phone company...
Posted by: Letophoro   Posted on: 12/03/07 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Radical Common Carrier Theories  DannyO_0x98 | 12/03/07
Deliver the Service  Tim Patterson | 12/03/07
You blindly support the EFF without reading their proposals?  georgeou | 12/03/07
an 'a la carte" subscription has its merits!  Linux Geek | 12/04/07
Rates creeping up are a part  gkrwc | 12/04/07
As a Comcast user, things look a little different...  Demzon | 12/04/07
Games on Comcast  gary.douglas@... | 12/04/07
I like Time Warner myself. Hate AT&T with a passion (nt)  tikigawd | 12/04/07
You might try reading the letter better  hrwaller | 12/05/07
"Do you throw out all the the EFF's ideas because of disagreeing with one"  bmerc | 12/05/07
Resurrecting the already disproven NAT strawman argument again?  Letophoro | 12/03/07
Indeed. Translation is not forgery.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/03/07
Comcast sold what they cannot supply  Jeffroooooo | 12/03/07
Absolutely  t_mohajir | 12/03/07
Have you read the terms of service when you sign up for Comcast?  georgeou | 12/03/07
Who can understand legalese?  t_mohajir | 12/03/07
Again, it's CLEARLY spelled out.  georgeou | 12/04/07
Not understanding the technology  DigitalFrog | 12/04/07
then why aren't you demanding competition?  big red one | 12/04/07
My housing complex prevents Comcast  georgeou | 12/04/07
Ignorant and Naive Position  kckn4fun | 12/05/07
Good luck getting past the TOS in the lawsuit  georgeou | 12/05/07
Comcast ranks WORST in satisfaction, and article is dishonest scare tactic  woot@... | 03/24/08
I'd rather have burst 6 mbps capability  georgeou | 12/03/07
But you can't have it...  Jeffroooooo | 12/03/07
Common sense says metered internet means death of peer-to-peer  georgeou | 12/03/07
They already are metering peer-to-peer users, why not meter everybody.  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Why Comcast doesn't want to go Metered or Throttled  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
Read their terms of service  georgeou | 12/03/07
You must have me confused with someone else.  Jeffroooooo | 12/03/07
That's exactly what Comcast is doing  georgeou | 12/03/07
I see you don't believe in "user pay".  Knorthern Knight | 12/03/07
You want to be stuck in metered Internet forever?  georgeou | 12/03/07
some us remember GEie and CIS  big red one | 12/04/07
Indeed...  spyro17@... | 12/05/07
RE. Thank you for this.  Kungfoofighterx | 12/03/07
I can understand why they got mad, though.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/03/07
Thanks for reading  georgeou | 12/03/07
Thanks for Letting Us Know  Drakaran | 12/04/07
There's just no point in metering the Internet  georgeou | 12/05/07
Off Topic post for George  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
This seems likely  nucrash | 12/03/07
You are right...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
Not a defect  Tim Patterson | 12/03/07
Nope...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
Not the same  nucrash | 12/03/07
FWIW  Larry Dignan ZDNet Moderator | 12/03/07
Good Luck!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
Sun told me the same thing  georgeou | 12/03/07
Seems to be a common theme in business now  Linux User 147560 | 12/04/07
i agree with you George i have friends  SO.CAL Guy | 12/03/07
The ISPs all have terms of service  georgeou | 12/03/07
What is to account for...???  nucrash | 12/03/07
you can download this software and monitor monthly bandwidth  SO.CAL Guy | 12/03/07
I assume that goes by machine  nucrash | 12/03/07
You would get stuck with a $2000 bill  georgeou | 12/03/07
Yes, but you can punish the kid  nucrash | 12/04/07
Nonsense  bmerc | 12/05/07
A word George,  Cardinal_Bill | 12/03/07
Ditto.  grinn.net | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  tom.edwards | 12/03/07
Why would you want to complicate things?  georgeou | 12/03/07
Less Socialistic  nucrash | 12/04/07
We already have tiered rates  georgeou | 12/04/07
No one can guarantee how much they will use  Leria | 12/04/07
some in Alaska already pay into metered service  cadman@... | 12/17/07
Everyone just turn on encryption for your BitTorrent client, its easy...  xunil skcor | 12/03/07
Possibly (very) bad idea  emilp | 12/03/07
Wrong...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/03/07
It's not a bandwidth issue, it's a DOCSIS issue  georgeou | 12/03/07
So it's the number of IPs rather than the bandwidth?  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/04/07
No, it's the way BitTorrent seeds behave  georgeou | 12/04/07
Argh. That was a tad on the dense side.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
Also (I miss the "edit" function for posts...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
Forgery of any kind is fundamentally wrong  D. T. Schmitz | 12/03/07
You're quoting me out of context  georgeou | 12/03/07
Same old go-round. Translation is NOT forgery.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
You're wasting your time...  bmerc | 12/05/07
In Canada we have that too  voska | 12/03/07
Re: In Canada we have that too  none none | 12/03/07
Not as bad as presented  Richard Flude | 12/03/07
Metered Internet would mean the death of P2P.  georgeou | 12/03/07
You'd think that but nope  voska | 12/04/07
60 GB isn't really a limit. EFF links to Australian plans  georgeou | 12/04/07
Hold Your Bl**dy Horses, mate  goldenpirate@... | 12/04/07
George is wrong  Richard Flude | 12/04/07
60 GB isn't really a limit. EFF links to Australian plans  ian2810@... | 12/04/07
Not too bad here  technical@... | 12/04/07
One more thing, Canadian Cable broadband companies do the same thing as Com  georgeou | 12/04/07
And Sudan has the death penalty for adultery.  Letophoro | 12/04/07
You completely missed my point  georgeou | 12/04/07
Numbers, please!  Absolutely | 12/13/07
George, are you really that stupid????  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
BitTorrent 6mbps downloads and uploads are not throttled  georgeou | 12/03/07
Yes George, you really are that stupid. Comcast IS metering BitTorrent  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
If the seeders damage the network, they get throttled  georgeou | 12/03/07
It is NOT just "seeders" "damaging" the network. It is just one  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Fraud & Network Neutrality  D. T. Schmitz | 12/08/07
Without regard to QoS eh?  georgeou | 12/08/07
It is in the contract  lucky 13 | 12/03/07
The problem is, Comcast was throttling ALL BitTorrent users, no matter what  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
It is spelled out in the contract. It says "NO SERVERS"  georgeou | 12/03/07
These are not servers, this is peer-to-peer. There are many protocols where  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
It isn't "within the contract"  lucky 13 | 12/04/07
"NO SERVERS" is not in the contract (or terms/policies)...  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
Who are you kidding, Robb?  richardbennett | 12/03/07
Participating in a peer-to-peer network is NOT a server. You transfer data  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Not misconception, just semantics  lucky 13 | 12/04/07
Again, it's already in the agreement and aup  lucky 13 | 12/04/07
Stolen bandwidth  jpratchios@... | 12/03/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  saltydognl@... | 12/03/07
What about my Slingbox?  jpc1958_98@... | 12/03/07
The problem is Comcast selling more bandwidth than they have. If everybody  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Anyway you look at it, Comcast is metering BitTorren users that may be well  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
What are you talking about?  georgeou | 12/03/07
Quite Incorrect, George -- Comcast RSTs Everyone using most P2P apps  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
You're ASSUMING this is a bandwidth issue  georgeou | 12/03/07
Well, you're relying on Richard, who said it was... but okay, answer this..  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
Excessive SYNs is part of it  richardbennett | 12/03/07
Cable bandwidth is assymetric  Knorthern Knight | 12/03/07
Many points...  Marty R. Milette | 12/03/07
I'm happy I don't live in Russia  georgeou | 12/03/07
Oh, and thanks for your thoughtful post  georgeou | 12/03/07
George Ou...mashup master...  wmlundine | 12/03/07
wow.. disappointed with the EFF  Hobyx | 12/03/07
Not just the EFF. It's the Free Press and Public Knowledge too  georgeou | 12/03/07
There you go again George  notsofast | 12/03/07
I only speak of known facts  georgeou | 12/03/07
If you're correct  notsofast | 12/04/07
I have used Comcast and it's a lot better than my DSL service  georgeou | 12/04/07
That may be true,  notsofast | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  MrJamin | 12/04/07
Excellent points!  georgeou | 12/04/07
Another Dissatisfied Pom????  goldenpirate@... | 12/04/07
True, oh so true...  journeyman2001@... | 12/04/07
I'm glad you said the RIGHT thing here..  Mr. Tinker | 12/04/07
on a recent quest to get the newest verison of the American Army game, the  wessonjoe | 12/04/07
RIAA says thank you  georgeou | 12/04/07
Maybe, but unlikely.  notsofast | 12/04/07
don't think i agreed with EFF in post. just sayin that with current service  wessonjoe | 12/06/07
I think you got him wrong  Counselorleo | 12/04/07
you get it. (nt)  wessonjoe | 12/06/07
maybe p2p software authors should help  sysop-dr | 12/04/07
Yes - it does  sphillips3 | 12/04/07
Net neutrality = greediest users screw everyone else  Vesicant | 12/04/07
George lacks ethics?  Akumal | 12/04/07
EFF specifically favors metered Internet  georgeou | 12/04/07
"work"  Akumal | 12/04/07
Those no limit plans cost a fortune  georgeou | 12/04/07
cost fortune = out of business  Akumal | 12/05/07
Welcome to Georgie's world!  bmerc | 12/05/07
I don't understand what is being said here!!!  mames1701 | 12/04/07
Metered Bandwidth - try metered service pricing  dankasnitzel | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  pcfixup4ua | 12/04/07
Give me an example of Comcast or any ISP blocking content  georgeou | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  billy_newman1@... | 12/04/07
What did you expect from a Lawyer ???  TheRealPauper | 12/04/07
P2P is a parasite  dufbeer703 | 12/04/07
No it is NOT !!!!  chaz15 | 12/04/07
Do you want to be billed an extra $5/GB?  georgeou | 12/04/07
More specious nonsense from the Georgemeister  bmerc | 12/05/07
Geeze George,  notsofast | 12/05/07
You mean user's tastes are parasitic...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
Nonsense  bmerc | 12/05/07
"shifting the cost of bandwidth"  Absolutely | 12/12/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  cdave230 | 12/04/07
better "neutral extremist" than biased sycophant, mr. ou  llval@... | 12/04/07
Stop the madness!  Slamshifter | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  deartous@... | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  vaughanm | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  DesertPete9@... | 12/04/07
Most Hilarious EFF Recommendation!  bjterry62 | 12/04/07
LOL  georgeou | 12/04/07
Why is it funny? You just break it into parts...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
It's funny the same way...  bmerc | 12/05/07
What are they teaching these children today?  bmerc | 12/05/07
He said email, he said nothing of usenet  georgeou | 12/05/07
I have comcast  merc2dogs` | 12/04/07
I got weekly or mothly outages with DSL  georgeou | 12/04/07
Fix it Once and Forever!  marpincan@... | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  dfesperman1@... | 12/04/07
Cost of data in Australia  KiwiMike | 12/04/07
Yea, right!  crawdad2k | 12/04/07
Excelent Point  goldenpirate@... | 12/05/07
Cost of living in the antipodes  KiwiMike | 12/05/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  johnford@... | 12/04/07
That's still bad  georgeou | 12/04/07
But that 100GB wouldnt come from the other side of the world  KiwiMike | 12/04/07
Once again George is PROVEN wrong and can't see it  bmerc | 12/05/07
That's about right  grumnut@... | 12/04/07
Sorry...out of order  grumnut@... | 12/04/07
What do you expect?  John Musbach | 12/04/07
Overusage  grumnut@... | 12/05/07
AT THE LEAST INVESTIGATE METERING  westks | 12/04/07
Broadband is already tiered by throughput and it's expensive enough  georgeou | 12/05/07
pay for what you get  KiwiMike | 12/05/07
george has already decided  Akumal | 12/05/07
George's definition of "innovation" comes from Microsoft (nt)  bmerc | 12/05/07
As an Australian, I have to say that I changed due to that . (NT)  kamahl928 | 12/05/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  jaunine@... | 12/05/07
Time for a chage  marpincan@... | 12/05/07
Are you kidding????  marpincan@... | 12/05/07
Read: EFF becomes MPAA/RIAA's BFF.  Wolfie2K3 | 12/05/07
Straight from the source  bruceslog | 12/06/07
EFF's own website recommends metered Internet as the alternative  georgeou | 12/06/07
Kick off the bandwidth hogs  pmjm@... | 12/07/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  pavka@... | 12/07/07
Aussie Dollar  grumnut@... | 12/07/07

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