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George since when did you become a scientist ?
Hopefully you have a Phd. or something so folks don't think you are full of it .
Posted by: MythBuster   Posted on: 08/13/07 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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George since when did you become a scientist ?  MythBuster | 08/13/07
What the ..?  tshinder@... | 08/13/07
It's obvious what is wrong.  James T. Kirk | 08/13/07
Why, is there something wrong with his argument?  odubtaig | 08/13/07
I have been known...  msalzberg | 08/13/07
I don't know what you are...  odubtaig | 08/13/07
Maybe not a biochemist...  tikigawd | 08/13/07
He used more scientiv methods than the idiot did  No_Ax_to_Grind | 08/13/07
I don't have a PhD, but try and shoot down my experiments  georgeou | 08/13/07
Don't be so arrogant!  jjarman | 08/14/07
Zero experimentation or data was every presented  georgeou | 08/14/07
even in your reply to me, it is HOW you word it...that makes you look bad.  jjarman | 08/15/07
Thanks for admitting you were wrong and your bias  georgeou | 08/15/07
hmmmm....seeing as i didn't do either doesn't that seem arrogant to say?  jjarman | 08/15/07
Hey, just telling it like I see it  georgeou | 08/15/07
i can understand how you could arrive at that conclusion...  jjarman | 08/15/07
Why do you keep attacking me when Peter Gutmann is the fraud?  georgeou | 08/15/07
what? are you serious?  jjarman | 08/16/07
Please list what you think I'm guilty of that I'm accusing Gutmann of  georgeou | 08/16/07
reasonable request  jjarman | 08/16/07
NO, Gutmann said he never touched Vista  georgeou | 08/16/07
One contributing factor isn't Gutmann's fault  NonZealot | 08/16/07
okay, good enough  jjarman | 08/16/07
no such thing as bad publicity  JetJaguar | 08/16/07
How can you test...  mrlinux | 08/15/07
Thank you!  laxmanb | 08/13/07
George, HDCP aside all disks ....  ShadeTree | 08/13/07
But I heard it kills kittens!  odubtaig | 08/13/07
Oops, supposed to be reply to story  odubtaig | 08/13/07
Needlessly harsh/confrontational?  Robert Crocker | 08/13/07
He's had plenty of time....  James T. Kirk | 08/13/07
He NEVER said he was misquoted, and his absurd claims have been up for mont  georgeou | 08/13/07
you linked to this "paper" from Microsoft only thing worth reading=comments  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Months, eh?  Robert Crocker | 08/14/07
He is hostile because he is unprofessional.  coverlt@... | 08/14/07
I wouldn't say he's being unprofessional  Badgered | 08/16/07
When that person is getting world-wide attention  georgeou | 08/16/07
i had a similar reaction to the way material was presented, not its content  jjarman | 08/16/07
and george could NEVER be wrong  jjarman | 08/14/07
Not needlessly harsh  Leria | 08/14/07
Don't make me laugh  Cayble | 08/14/07
Gee, Micro-Zealots are touchy these days!  comp_indiana | 08/15/07
George his article was generated from reading...  mrlinux | 08/13/07
Message has been deleted.  LostViking | 08/13/07
So what  herbys67 | 08/13/07
Not sure how hard the facts are...  Freebird54 | 08/16/07
Credibility of Gutmann  MisterGilles | 08/13/07
You're right, I called the media on that in February  georgeou | 08/13/07
but i've tried Vista and it does take more resources and run slower  stevey_d | 08/14/07
jumping to conclusion  MisterGilles | 08/14/07
DRM is part of the problem though  stevey_d | 08/14/07
On power consumption  MisterGilles | 08/14/07
Ok... So let's take it to the next logical level.  Wolfie2K3 | 08/15/07
You obviously can't read  georgeou | 08/15/07
But if you add the 40 lbs to every car in the world  stevey_d | 08/15/07
Let's get scientific here !  MisterGilles | 08/15/07
Listen to Gutmann's interview on this  mrlinux | 08/13/07
i listened and he still has no data to back up his claims (NT)  SO.CAL Guy | 08/13/07
What Microsofts own spec. not readable ???  mrlinux | 08/13/07
Link  mrlinux | 08/13/07
Not a question of reliability of the spec, it's the fact that Gutmann doesn  georgeou | 08/13/07
Where does he state ....  mrlinux | 08/13/07
I quoted his claim in the blog. He has not denied it  georgeou | 08/13/07
but most people use close on 0.001% of cpu.  stevey_d | 08/14/07
I've got Vista right now and CPU utilization says 1% just like Windows XP  georgeou | 08/14/07
you missed the word "USE"  stevey_d | 08/14/07
You measure with a power meter at the plug  georgeou | 08/14/07
if you have a 500 watt Power supply and use less than 100W  stevey_d | 08/15/07
On your 500w power supply  osreinstall | 08/15/07
Do you ever read stevey?  georgeou | 08/15/07
Avoid DRM  CobraA1 | 08/13/07
it's hard you not use DRM content when most software you use has in  SO.CAL Guy | 08/13/07
re: it's hard you not use DRM content when most software you use has in  CobraA1 | 08/13/07
Really Avoid DRM?  AnthonySPT | 08/13/07
"Potential" problem?  boguscomputer | 08/28/07
Downgrades Users Own Content ??  TheBoyBailey | 08/13/07
Please note...  zkiwi | 08/13/07
Timbo, your understanding is so wrong I can't even contain myself  georgeou | 08/13/07
George's fundemental FLAW / limited engineering skills.  thetruth_z | 08/13/07
News flash: 1080p VC-1 playback resulted in 7% CPU  georgeou | 08/13/07
News flash.. Without DRM and...  thetruth_z | 08/13/07
You do realize that your theory is laughable right?  georgeou | 08/13/07
Why?  herbys67 | 08/13/07
And yet...  zkiwi | 08/13/07
Why would I admit to being wrong when the TEST results back me up?  georgeou | 08/13/07
So, you addressed his numbers how?  zkiwi | 08/13/07
No need to address  herbys67 | 08/13/07
Most normal people  zkiwi | 08/13/07
Simple, there's no way in hell his theory can work  georgeou | 08/13/07
So where are your numbers?  stevey_d | 08/14/07
I told you, a Core 2 Duo 3 GHz core will only do 133 MB/sec  georgeou | 08/14/07
have you considered that maybe Microsoft haven't enabled the encryption  stevey_d | 09/21/07
George is still wrong.  mr_ped | 08/19/07
hmm.. some additional words...  mr_ped | 08/19/07
This is bogus. They are doing it now.  osreinstall | 08/19/07
What type of encryption?  herbys67 | 08/13/07
Gutmann only mentioned that Microsoft documentation mentioned AES  georgeou | 08/14/07
maybe Microsoft didn't follow their own spec  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Some claims you haven't debunked yet  CobraA1 | 08/13/07
Here I come to save the day...or at least, write a reply.  Ben_E | 08/13/07
I never denied it has the capability of ICT  georgeou | 08/13/07
Exactly!  Ben_E | 08/13/07
No you covered the other points well  georgeou | 08/13/07
re: I never denied it has the capability of ICT  CobraA1 | 08/14/07
You don't need HDCP until the ICT flag is turned on  georgeou | 08/14/07
Gaaa this is EXACTLY what Gutmann is talking about  stevey_d | 09/21/07
Avoid Vista ! Really .  Intellihence | 08/13/07
so a computer manufacture is not going to use vista for networking at the  SO.CAL Guy | 08/13/07
re:and this has what to do with this article about DRM.  Intellihence | 08/13/07
Uhh yeah...  tikigawd | 08/13/07
"I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft left a few backdoors open"  Ole Man | 08/13/07
Has Microsoft responded?  dragosani | 08/13/07
Relax dude , George_Ou is the voice of Microsoft .  Intellihence | 08/13/07
I'm a only a fanboy...  tikigawd | 08/13/07
And your point is?  tikigawd | 08/13/07
I am relaxed, dude  dragosani | 08/13/07
Nobody really likes DRM  georgeou | 08/13/07
That is IF  dragosani | 08/14/07
They don't understand  georgeou | 08/14/07
POKE  Shelendrea | 08/14/07
Microsoft responded a while ago  georgeou | 08/13/07
Thank You (nt)  dragosani | 08/13/07
Peters work is an embarrassment  chrisin | 08/13/07
Too bad  Ole Man | 08/13/07
Yeah, I feel bad I listed his University  georgeou | 08/13/07
You shouldn't feel bad  chrisin | 08/13/07
Good point  georgeou | 08/13/07
read below for Gutman's credentials the only person you've smeared is you  stevey_d | 08/14/07
really, where is you math to refute his paper  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Making an Ass-U-mp-shun...  Wolfie2K3 | 08/15/07
good point. See my math above  stevey_d | 08/15/07
A gold nugget buried in a pile of dung  Ole Man | 08/13/07
read ole mans' post for Gutmans credentials versus George Ou  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Unbelieveable.  Ben_E | 08/14/07
Great post, but you missed one point in my article  georgeou | 08/14/07
Ah - my bad!  Ben_E | 08/14/07
Are you honestly saying that DRM takes no processing cycles  stevey_d | 08/14/07
OK, let's see...  Ben_E | 08/14/07
I think you need to find out how CMOS works  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Hardly...  Wolfie2K3 | 08/15/07
according to what i read, speedstep is usually used on laptops on battery  stevey_d | 09/21/07
in 1998, psus were 100watts, now common 500watts  stevey_d | 08/14/07
If you have a lot of extra hardware that is.  odubtaig | 08/14/07
beneaton was right about netburst vs core  stevey_d | 08/14/07
There was a sharp spike in CPU power consumption but that trend reversed  georgeou | 08/14/07
but is your machine actually doing any AES?  stevey_d | 09/21/07
I think you don't understand what's being talked about here  stevey_d | 08/14/07
True reason against reason  Ole Man | 08/14/07
Tell me why  stevey_d | 09/21/07
If it's there, it can be used  TucsonGuy | 08/13/07
So you're saying you're looking  chrisin | 08/13/07
You're funny.  odubtaig | 08/14/07
Well the DRM simply  chrisin | 08/14/07
First the DRM has to actually work.  odubtaig | 08/15/07
"it will lower the price due to lower piracy"  Ole Man | 08/14/07
DRM is at its infancy  chrisin | 08/14/07
"DRM is at its infancy"???  Ole Man | 08/14/07
DRM is an inherently flawed system.  odubtaig | 08/15/07
DVDFab Decrypter solves that problem  georgeou | 08/13/07
meanwhile in china  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Just one line struck me:  ju1ce | 08/14/07
"postulated" is the key  Ole Man | 08/14/07
The time it took you to post that is more measureable  georgeou | 08/14/07
No it aint  Ole Man | 08/14/07
But if you actually think about it...  Ben_E | 08/14/07
DRM Moot  jabailo1 | 08/14/07
some more math  stevey_d | 08/14/07
Guttman responds to George  bicard | 08/14/07
It's called the scientific method wink  jjarman | 08/14/07
I was picking apart what he admitted to saying and his published paper  georgeou | 08/14/07
What's funny to me...  brble | 08/14/07
Yup, but I'm commenting on confirmed quotes and on his "paper"  georgeou | 08/14/07
yeah and he's commenting on "confirmed quotes" from your ZDNet blog...duh!  jjarman | 08/15/07
This is where Ou makes his own straw man, and you fall for it  stevey_d | 08/15/07
Where is Gutmann's proof?  otaddy | 08/14/07
George going to test guttmans claims  bicard | 08/14/07
AnandTech already ran tests and they're fairly reputable  georgeou | 08/14/07
George maybe you should check with Microsoft...  mrlinux | 08/14/07
And like I said, that would be an impossible load  georgeou | 08/14/07
Then why on earth are you ranting  zkiwi | 08/14/07
Please dont confuse George with Facts and ...  mrlinux | 08/15/07
But how can you stay that George you dont  mrlinux | 08/16/07
He musta been running vista w' 256MB RAM lol  pcguy777 | 08/14/07
Gutmann has never touched Vista  georgeou | 08/14/07
I did lab work when I went to college.  osreinstall | 08/14/07
He has no excuse  georgeou | 08/14/07
He is the Carlton Sheets of academia.  osreinstall | 08/15/07
I agree totally  chrisin | 08/14/07
That University should at least ask him to backup his theory  georgeou | 08/14/07
Read Microsofts Spec...  mrlinux | 08/14/07
Actual experimentation is superior to outdated WinHEC paper  georgeou | 08/14/07
Well when you review a Specification on a product...  mrlinux | 08/14/07
Look up "scientific method"  georgeou | 08/14/07
You still cannot make claims until you have proof.  osreinstall | 08/14/07
except Gutman was reviewing the Vista Content Protection Specification  stevey_d | 08/15/07
There is no strawman here at all.  osreinstall | 08/15/07
Give it up, kid  Ole Man | 08/14/07
Yeah, we are all blood thirsty.  osreinstall | 08/14/07
Nope he's a real scientist with a huge track record  stevey_d | 08/15/07
God help us if he is.  osreinstall | 08/15/07
It isn't "interpretation", Microsoft said exactly the same  stevey_d | 08/15/07
Well also from the spec...  mrlinux | 08/15/07
Ou misses some of the point of Gutermans claims  kRogue | 08/15/07
I almost agree 100% of your post...  mrlinux | 08/15/07
He does what Microsoft taught him to do  Ole Man | 08/17/07
Who cares?  odubtaig | 08/15/07
Simple...  mrlinux | 08/15/07
Off the mark again.  odubtaig | 08/15/07
HEAR THIS: unsigned drivers permitted  otaddy | 08/15/07
Those claims weren't missed, they were RIDICULED!!  NonZealot | 08/15/07
please.... read more...  kRogue | 08/15/07
You just changed your story  NonZealot | 08/15/07
Actually, HDCP seems to be negligible on cost  georgeou | 08/16/07
This has been education for me; but am somewhat confused on HDCP  bicard | 08/16/07
Yes you will be, until ICT flag is on  georgeou | 08/16/07
Final conclusion?  Freebird54 | 08/17/07
True, some of Gutmanns claims cant be tested yet  otaddy | 08/19/07
Being as he never claimed otherwise  Freebird54 | 08/20/07
Whole thing is laughable  blarman_z | 08/20/07
George Ou and Ed Bott-Writers not Comp Techs  alafjr@... | 08/20/07
Hey, we even let you speak  georgeou | 08/27/07
paranoia continues ....  Open_Sauce | 08/28/07
hmmm  Kjell_Andorsen | 08/29/07
ooops  Kjell_Andorsen | 08/29/07
Yes, and it doesn't increase power consumption in any measureable way  georgeou | 08/30/07
Wow  Kjell_Andorsen | 08/29/07
Go back to the original quote  Freebird54 | 09/03/07
I think people are missing the point  reapur | 11/14/07

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