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Posted by: Robert Crocker   Posted on: 05/26/06 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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George, your glasses are a little fogged  whisperycat | 05/26/06
EXTREMELY well said! George? Snappy come back? (NT)  MTMacPhee | 05/26/06
Yes, it was extremely well said!  NonZealot | 05/26/06
What factual errors?  msolgeek | 05/26/06
Okay, I'll be specific  NonZealot | 05/26/06
IE the Browser  belkorin | 05/30/06
Same with KDE  NonZealot | 05/30/06
KDE  belkorin | 05/31/06
size of the Linux patches  Me_too | 11/04/07
Very well said  richvball44 | 05/28/06
George is telling us  msolgeek | 05/26/06
Nope  ccrashh2@... | 05/26/06
Go ever further  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Really - guard just the perimeter?  msolgeek | 05/26/06
LOL  ccrashh2@... | 05/26/06
Actually for the home and SOHO too  georgeou | 05/26/06
What about road warriors among us, George?  mikeald | 06/19/07
Okay...  msolgeek | 05/26/06
rephrase  Canadian falcon | 05/30/06
No, just hear me out  georgeou | 05/26/06
I've heard that one befoe.  CobraA1 | 05/26/06
Is Trend, McAfee, Symantec modern enough?  georgeou | 05/26/06
I'll second that  pkrdk | 05/26/06
ummm  Canadian falcon | 05/31/06
router  belkorin | 06/01/06
of course  Canadian falcon | 06/03/06
some good points  Scott W | 05/27/06
*hands whisperycat some windex for the eyeballs  shadowgryphon@... | 05/31/06
scanning  belkorin | 06/01/06
You have foggy class too  iom88@... | 06/30/07
I've got a word .doc for you  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
Geoge's hit count is down again!  linux_for_me | 05/26/06
Uh, you didn't even read the blog  georgeou | 05/26/06
Yes I did......  linux_for_me | 05/26/06
Ah, but you can build one with Linux for $30  georgeou | 05/26/06
LOL...No,you got me there!  linux_for_me | 05/27/06
Forks  DownRightTired | 06/18/07
overhead  belkorin | 05/30/06
You're right about the software.  Anton Philidor | 05/26/06
Worsening the problem  Anton Philidor | 05/26/06
You would be surprised...  IndianaTux | 05/26/06
Oh, and, FYI  IndianaTux | 05/26/06
umm...  belkorin | 05/30/06
Better solution  NonZealot | 05/30/06
Time to toss out Office?  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
Even Linux?  D. T. Schmitz | 05/26/06
Run Linux AV as the transparent proxy and virus scanner  georgeou | 05/26/06
exactly  ccrashh2@... | 05/26/06
They don't just eat your food  georgeou | 05/26/06
I catch your drift  D. T. Schmitz | 05/26/06
Norton is like putting the infantry ahead of the tanks!  osreinstall | 05/27/06
That's called Authenticode policies  georgeou | 05/31/06
This would be a good system  osreinstall | 06/01/06
who decides..?  belkorin | 06/01/06
I decide what goes on my computer.  osreinstall | 06/01/06
Who decides is you  georgeou | 06/02/06
George...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
How is this a Windows problem?  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Well it certainly isn't a Linux or OSX problem  whisperycat | 05/26/06
Gotta love the ignorant happy  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Hmmm...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
You show your ignorance of Windows  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Here's an idea...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
I can no longer help you zkiwi  NonZealot | 05/27/06
Go ahead  zkiwi | 05/27/06
Wow, what a rebuttal!!!  NonZealot | 05/27/06
zkiwi  toadlife | 05/27/06
For you and toadlife  zkiwi | 05/27/06
zkiwi  toadlife | 05/27/06
toadlife...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
assume much?  toadlife | 05/27/06
So...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
So?  toadlife | 05/28/06
Well...  zkiwi | 05/28/06
restricted user rights in windows...  belkorin | 05/30/06
Restricted rights work just fine  NonZealot | 05/30/06
ok, i'll bite  richvball44 | 05/28/06
I don't mind telling you  NonZealot | 05/28/06
Non Zealot? not  dimonic | 11/29/06
It's Linux users WINING again wink  jsargent | 05/26/06
I can assure you it's more likely to be up to date  georgeou | 05/27/06
Why not at the ISP?  kwwall@... | 01/09/08
Nice FUD  RocketEater | 05/26/06
I suggest that...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Either will work  georgeou | 05/26/06
I'm not sure you can be right...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Sounds like you're not going to believe me one way or another  georgeou | 05/26/06
Ok  zkiwi | 05/27/06
Simply because  zkiwi | 05/26/06
"Under control" doesn't mean "eradicate"  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Windows is easily securable  NonZealot | 05/26/06
If Windows is...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
I'll use the same reply  NonZealot | 05/26/06
I don't know why you think  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Simple Answers for Simple Minds  Dragon74 | 05/27/06
And because it is the biggest target  zkiwi | 05/27/06
George says it is  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
Then George is wrong on that one  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Running Word in Vista as a standard user mitigates issues  georgeou | 05/26/06
Ok  zkiwi | 05/26/06
You are mixing up "safe modes"  NonZealot | 05/26/06
*sigh*  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Vista is in "safe" mode out of the box  georgeou | 05/26/06
I'd dispute the sandbox is safe theory  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Dispute with what? Your opinion?  georgeou | 05/26/06
You make it seem like  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Princess Bride  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Wrong, every Windows virus could have been stopped with user controls  georgeou | 05/26/06
That isn't true  zkiwi | 05/26/06
I spent 4 days researching WMF  georgeou | 05/26/06
Ok then...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
You are so clueless it's sad  georgeou | 05/27/06
So George...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
Last time  georgeou | 05/27/06
And...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
Vista will lie to legacy code  georgeou | 05/28/06
Don't waste your time, George  Mark Miller | 05/28/06
Mark...  zkiwi | 05/28/06
Don't have a Anti Viri application too toss...use a MAC:)  Laff | 05/26/06
And Macs are immune to viruses??  Pazman | 05/26/06
A "vulnerability" does not equal an "exploit" does it?  Laff | 05/26/06
and ignorance doesn't equal protection does it?  georgeou | 05/26/06
Equivocation  Harry Bardal | 05/26/06
Interesting premise!  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Well.....  Laff | 05/26/06
Agreed  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Key fact that most Apple users ignore  toadlife | 05/26/06
Very nice toadlife!  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Lock Down  Harry Bardal | 05/26/06
Harry, I just figured it out!  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Toad and Non.....wait just a minute here....  Laff | 05/26/06
Certainly  toadlife | 05/27/06
Real world exploits? Name a few please...a few that  Laff | 05/26/06
It's time to toss out your antivirus software  TTGIT Guy | 05/26/06
Sounds like you didn't read jack  georgeou | 05/26/06
George...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Wrong! George got BOTH of us to read it!  nerdnick | 05/26/06
jack?  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Am I too late for the flame war  nucrash | 05/26/06
No; always a chance to watch...  Anton Philidor | 05/26/06
I didn't say STOP using AV, I said toss out the AV  georgeou | 05/26/06
You confused some of us George  WiredGuy | 05/26/06
Well... Toss out the AV usually means...  nucrash | 05/26/06
Exactly what I'm proposing!  georgeou | 05/26/06
proposing  richvball44 | 05/28/06
No, just use an old PC  georgeou | 05/30/06
Trend  belkorin | 06/06/06
Irresponsible Journalism  CriticalThinker | 05/26/06
RTFA  nucrash | 05/26/06
But AV scanning IS done at the gateway and in the DMZ  georgeou | 05/26/06
Not journalism  rapson | 05/26/06
Heh heh heh....now if my opinion is that George does NOT  Laff | 05/26/06
a goat by any other cheese  not of this world | 05/27/06
Dad doesn't live here  georgeou | 05/27/06
wow that was a good one  toxicfreak | 05/26/06
superior security track record  lwvirden | 05/29/06
Really?  toadlife | 05/29/06
Same tired MS bashers can't admit...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/26/06
Really?  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Then try it yourself.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/26/06
Yes, but then you  zkiwi | 05/26/06
BRILLIANTLY put!!  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Erm...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Can't  JDThompson | 05/26/06
and..  belkorin | 06/06/06
Same tired MS defenders can't admit...  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
And you base this on your own tests of Vista?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/26/06
I base this on years...  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
Yeah, I had a 57 Ford that was horrible  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/26/06
You sir, are an ignoramous  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
*buzz*  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Wrong  pkr@... | 05/29/06
Admin Rights removal at MS  barsteward | 05/26/06
Beta 2 looks very promising!  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Please call back when the product ships  WiredGuy | 05/26/06
Make the punishment fit the crime.  TN-Limey | 05/26/06
Unarmed = safer than armed. Yeah, right.  ejhonda | 05/26/06
No A/V is better than no brains...  jbrinkman1966 | 05/26/06
Spoken right out of the ivory tower.  ejhonda | 05/30/06
For the last time, READ THE BLOG  georgeou | 05/26/06
Utopia versus Reality  ejhonda | 05/30/06
Again, that isn't the only defense  georgeou | 05/30/06
sounds like a lot of trouble...  belkorin | 06/06/06
As much as it pains me, I agree with George here....  linux_for_me | 05/31/06
glaring loophole?  shraven | 05/26/06
Ok good catch  georgeou | 05/26/06
Toss out AV's  rcrumb@... | 05/26/06
I run my family as standard users  georgeou | 05/26/06
Out of the Box  Harry Bardal | 05/26/06
What on earth are you so upset about?  NonZealot | 05/26/06
He'll complain either way  georgeou | 05/26/06
confusion!  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Gateway AV is for everything  georgeou | 05/29/06
Why the whining?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/26/06
Vista is secure "out of the box" until  barsteward | 05/26/06
all you have to do  barsteward | 05/26/06
which reminds me  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Gee no Anti-virus on George's computer?  rupaa62 | 05/26/06
no, read the blog first  georgeou | 05/26/06
no Anti-virus on George's  ebsoloway@... | 05/29/06
If the planets all line up on the 5th day of the...  Gasman_z | 05/26/06
Good idea for a product, then  ccrashh2@... | 05/26/06
Running as standard user mitigates that  georgeou | 05/26/06
.bat  richvball44 | 05/28/06
That won't work under a standard user  georgeou | 05/28/06
Works for you, me and our ilk  Gasman_z | 05/31/06
Signed drivers will autoinstall  georgeou | 05/31/06
Outbound matters ...  SlammerDev | 05/26/06
I don't run Real player on my PC, it's not a problem  georgeou | 05/26/06
And no MS programs phone home????  barsteward | 05/26/06
Only if you ask them to  georgeou | 05/26/06
If that is true...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
So what if they do?  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Your choice to have spyware  barsteward | 05/26/06
ok, but...  belkorin | 06/06/06
Huh?  nizuse | 05/28/06
phone home  belkorin | 06/06/06
Throwing away the Firewall is like leaving open the door to the house!  jsargent | 05/26/06
Did you read the blog?  georgeou | 05/26/06
What are viruses really?  tero_t_vaananen@... | 05/26/06
Again, I didn't say STOP using AV  georgeou | 05/26/06
You're kidding, right?  Robert Crocker | 05/26/06
You can't argue with a MS security expert !!!!  barsteward | 05/26/06
It's called standard user access and restricted run time.  georgeou | 05/26/06
Catch-22  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Excellent post  toadlife | 05/26/06
Not if we lock the users down.  georgeou | 05/26/06
Know your audience  NonZealot | 05/26/06
Ah but it's for you  georgeou | 05/26/06
bits  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Remember George...  toadlife | 05/26/06
Firefox has some catching up to do on Vista  georgeou | 05/26/06
What is "code?"  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Forbes? I'll take that as a complement  georgeou | 05/26/06
Forbes writers are clueless about technology  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Vista firewall prevents services from communicating  georgeou | 05/26/06
Cuidado!  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Igotta S. Ay  NonZealot | 05/26/06
irony  toadlife | 05/26/06
dude, youre slow  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Good catch  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
mmmmm  barsteward | 05/26/06
"You Can't Patch The User"  belkorin | 06/06/06
I did and Vista still needs work.  linux_for_me | 05/26/06
Vista is still ... just software  tero_t_vaananen@... | 05/26/06
It was escalation, I know ....  yurthlr@... | 05/26/06
George is absolutely correct!  cppsolutions | 05/26/06
yes, and please bring me my straightjacket  rstran | 05/26/06
Okie dokie...  zkiwi | 05/26/06
re: Okie dokie...  cppsolutions | 05/27/06
Actually...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
How do you know?  frgough | 05/26/06
Let's get serious here!  rskaggs@... | 05/26/06
Let's get serious here!  rskaggs@... | 05/26/06
Alternate entry vectors?  George Macoukji | 05/26/06
Not just network level protection, but defense in depth  georgeou | 05/26/06
Provocative title but not really the story  Langalibalene | 05/26/06
Defense in depth  georgeou | 05/26/06
But in the real world  ballscrew bob | 05/26/06
RE: systems need no protection from virus and etc.  muffquentin | 05/26/06
You have some good points  JDThompson | 05/26/06
We need a FW/AV gateway scanner appliance  georgeou | 05/26/06
I still say  JDThompson | 05/26/06
When?  T1Oracle | 07/25/07
George Ou on virus applications on Windows  jattas@... | 05/26/06
Interesting comparison.  nizuse | 05/28/06
Did you implement any of my alternative solutions?  georgeou | 05/30/06
anyone who has to ask  A.Lizard | 05/26/06
Then tell me why third party firewalls put me at risk?  georgeou | 05/26/06
Other than  zkiwi | 05/26/06
must be all our imaginations then that it's worked  georgeou | 05/26/06
Seems to be a pattern  NonZealot | 05/27/06
It is indeed a pity that  zkiwi | 05/27/06
Links please!!  NonZealot | 05/27/06
Links?  zkiwi | 05/27/06
zkiwi, you are HILARIOUS!!!  NonZealot | 05/27/06
Hilarious?  zkiwi | 05/27/06
And just because you have been fortunate  zkiwi | 05/27/06
I've been fortunate too  NonZealot | 05/27/06
And yet...  zkiwi | 05/27/06
perhaps  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Hey George! Runnin' around the house...  nerdnick | 05/26/06
Intel has the solution, George  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Be careful with that  georgeou | 05/26/06
Truth in Blogvertising  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
So whose gateway are users supposed to do all this scanning on?  Zogg | 05/26/06
No, build one with Linux  georgeou | 05/26/06
Linux would be my solution, yes.  Zogg | 05/26/06
Then I'd have a horrible user experience  georgeou | 05/26/06
*burp*  zkiwi | 05/26/06
Compared to the "lovely" experience of getting Hacked?  Zogg | 05/27/06
I prefer another option  NonZealot | 05/27/06
No AV at all? Hmmm...  Zogg | 05/28/06
You prove my point  NonZealot | 05/28/06
I don't think I'm following you...  Zogg | 05/28/06
Let me explain further  NonZealot | 05/28/06
I am sorry but  Linux Advocate | 05/29/06
Bad advice from George  elliotg@... | 05/26/06
This isn't the only way  georgeou | 05/26/06
Personally...  JDThompson | 05/28/06
Nice!  xstep | 05/26/06
Patience  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/26/06
Here's why  georgeou | 05/26/06
We do have linux protecting us.  sw_bugs | 05/30/06
It's time to toss out George Ou.  Mr. Roboto | 05/26/06
He does need a rest  ballscrew bob | 05/26/06
I think you're missing the point  georgeou | 05/26/06
I must nitpick  toadlife | 05/28/06
Don't need IPSEC for Vista  georgeou | 05/29/06
Neato  toadlife | 05/29/06
Jeeezeeus george  ballscrew bob | 05/26/06
Jeeezeeus Bob, sounds like you didn't even read the blog  georgeou | 05/26/06
Quite easy ehh ?  pkrdk | 05/27/06
There's no AVG exploits on the list  Greenknight_z | 05/27/06
One Problem George  Dragon74 | 05/27/06
Good question  georgeou | 05/27/06
Its time to Toss out your AV software  robbie_dolev@... | 05/27/06
You forgot the other lines of defenses  georgeou | 05/27/06
when  richvball44 | 05/28/06
Here are your answers  NonZealot | 05/28/06
Macs and 'PeeCees'.  georgeou | 05/28/06
PC components seem reliable enough to me  Zogg | 05/28/06
Not PCI-X, that's a different older standard  georgeou | 05/28/06
You guys are amazing!  Cardinal_Bill | 05/27/06
Right..  xstep | 05/27/06
Because I just came on board  georgeou | 05/27/06
Well, then I appluad you!  xstep | 05/28/06
That's great  georgeou | 05/28/06
Interesting  Mark Miller | 05/27/06
Thanks, I've mentioned NTFS in a different discussion  georgeou | 05/27/06
George still in lala land!  An_Axe_to_Grind | 05/27/06
WHAT REALLY GEORGY IS TELLING:  theo_durcan | 05/28/06
That would be illogical, because...  Zogg | 05/28/06
Watch your headings  TonyMcS | 05/28/06
Better to run grandma and the kids as standard user  georgeou | 05/28/06
Then please detail  zkiwi | 05/28/06
Running Linux as the gateway can be the cheapest solution  georgeou | 05/28/06
Real world  TonyMcS | 05/29/06
There's no way I'd let kids have admin rights  georgeou | 05/30/06
Vista lies to legacy code?  JDThompson | 05/28/06
It's not that bad  georgeou | 05/28/06
Or, you know, you could just buy Macs  pjane | 05/29/06
Wrong axe  pkr@... | 05/29/06
Simply the best way to go is wink  x3dre@... | 05/29/06
That could be done with proper partition restrictions  georgeou | 05/29/06
But the mere fact of  x3dre@... | 05/30/06
DVDs are too slow  georgeou | 05/30/06
Once the OS is loaded  x3dre@... | 05/30/06
I never buy the "once it's loaded argument"  georgeou | 05/30/06
Have you tried it though?  x3dre@... | 05/30/06
That's Life  Dr_Zinj | 05/30/06
seems like a lot more  belkorin | 06/01/06
About time you joined the wave!  sw_bugs | 05/30/06
Only after you switch into *BSD, UNIX or Linux ....  michael_t | 05/30/06
Message has been deleted.  belkorin | 05/31/06
follow the money George  ttocsmij | 09/26/06
time to toss out antivirus  rosarysrj@... | 09/26/06
virus' are the biggest money spin since the internet!  mitchc@... | 11/15/06
Some more huckstering for MS  lcdix@... | 11/29/06
It's time to toss out your antivirus software  hrosita@... | 11/29/06
I am confused by this talk  njroy55 | 11/29/06
Not all viruses enter through the network  ron@... | 11/29/06
Antivirus Software  lstell@... | 11/29/06
Just Let The Walk In?  johnford@... | 11/29/06
Toss out your anti virus software ??  andrew.gilmour | 11/30/06
one more time George  DownRightTired | 06/18/07
Too much overhead? NOD32. (NT)  butler360 | 06/20/07
gateway antivirus for home?  ZDNetReader1 | 07/23/07
Not practical  RDrr | 02/11/08
RE: It's time to toss out your antivirus software  red_ragtop | 02/12/08
RE: It's time to toss out your antivirus software  javacodeitordrinkit | 10/08/08
What about infected CDs, DVDs, & USB flash drives?  steveklein | 05/12/09
I block code execution for unsigned applications in Active Directory  georgeou | 08/21/09

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