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Software patents: broad, stifling and unfair
The problem with patenting processes or algorithms - not necessarily even in computer software - is that we end up with extremely broad or obvious patents.

If you write a program using simple common sense and happen to "re-invent" something that's patented, that's a strong hint that the patent is too general or obvious.

This is why we have ridiculous patents on "not having to click on a control for it to display dynamic content in a web browser" (Eolas), or "method of swinging on a swing" (United States Patent 6368227, which in itself should be evidence that the US patent system needs to be destroyed and rebuilt by people with an IQ above 30).

What's next? "A method of lifting heavy objects by using one's legs, not one's back"? Or, following Eolas's lead, "not having to say 'abracadabra' and turn around three times before turning on a computer"?
And how is $280m a reasonable amount of "damages", when i4i has produced nothing that could be damaged? Where is their competing product which is suffering in the marketplace due to competition with the patent-infringing Office?

And to those arguing that Microsoft/everyone should do their "due diligence" by researching patents, have you ever written a computer program? Can you really imagine searching for patents that might cover every single aspect of the code you're writing?
Programmers produce code that solves the problems at hand. They do not think "hmm, maybe what we need is to store some text separately to where the formatting information for that text is stored. That makes sense. Better check if that is software-patented!"
Imagine trying to speak to someone while having to look up every individual word you use to check that it's not in some arbitrary blacklist. It would be an unproductive nightmare.
And on top of that, patent search is extremely difficult because they're often worded in an inconsistent, generic or confusing way.

Software patents do nothing good for anybody other than patent trolls and lawyers. For everyone else in the world, they only hold back science and progress. Get rid of software patents in the US now, and keep them out of the EU too.
Posted by: exolon   Posted on: 08/20/09 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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XML Dead?  backpacker299 | 08/12/09
it's unclear  Larry Dignan ZDNet Moderator | 08/12/09
Time limit  eqpc | 08/12/09
So I'm hosed?  charrisgw | 08/12/09
We all are criminals...  pauliusp | 08/12/09
That is exactly it.  Erroneous | 08/12/09
I'm with MS on this. Legalised criminality, that's all this is.  fr0thy2 | 08/12/09
follow the money  DaemonSlayer | 08/12/09
Why is everyone against MS  bolfakl | 08/12/09
To bolfakl on "Why is everyone against MS"  Jxn | 08/14/09
More made off of suing MS than their GDP  Baer | 12/23/09
BAER only misses by degree ...  Too Old For IT | 12/23/09
Re; We all are criminals. No. Not everybody.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Not quite so  Jxn | 08/14/09
How about sueing i4i for damages?  satovey@... | 08/12/09
It's your job, not theirs.  philculmer | 08/13/09
Royal dumbness  drorharari | 09/02/09
Good idea, but  wez@... | 12/23/09
MS knew all of that  tom@... | 12/24/09
The Patent System is seriously broken  JSALZ | 01/11/10
patents on software in a nutshell.  Jxn | 08/14/09
Just picking on MS  wez@... | 12/23/09
If I am not mistaken  Michael Kelly | 08/12/09
Prior Works?  jgwinner | 08/12/09
According to i4i's patent...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
An example?  peter_breed@... | 08/12/09
Well that raises more questions doesn't it. (nt)  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
EDI is a prior work  baileysc | 08/12/09
Code in question created created by i4i  hsmphoto | 08/14/09
Well is that is the case...  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
The issue seems limited in scope  jswilsonx | 12/23/09
My perception is that it's actually crystal clear...  sgmunson | 08/12/09
think your right  wez@... | 12/23/09
Only in america  Li1t | 08/13/09
The patent  ShadowGIATL | 08/13/09
Ironic  bmonsterman | 08/12/09
MS patent for defense, not offense.  Fark | 08/12/09
Could be true, but it still a patent for a product they didn't invent  wackoae | 08/12/09
Re; A simple query in their own database should had yielded enough . .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
You are right that those patent shouldn't  Jxn | 08/14/09
Amen  Baer | 12/23/09
This Law Suit/Patent is Much Narrower  amywohl | 08/12/09
What exactly in XML is not custom tags  baileysc | 08/12/09
My sample xml got stripped out  baileysc | 08/12/09
XML is a subset of SGML  Jeffin90620 | 08/12/09
XMl is not a subset it's a superset  conceptual | 08/12/09
Read the Claims  bperrybap@... | 08/13/09
Hm, sounds  Jxn | 08/14/09
Quite so - the patent definition is a _bit_ broad  Chris Meacher | 12/29/09
What about XSLT  sfeinst | 08/18/09
What???  DandyD | 08/14/09
The Federal Court problem  bicwood | 12/23/09
XML not dead  not.whitney@... | 12/24/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  fgleeson667 | 08/12/09
XML history  NetArch. | 08/12/09
Prior art on storing WP docs w/ XML-like format  marks6i | 08/12/09
Re; (sofware patents) should be banned.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
quaint  paul_bruford@... | 08/13/09
Judge just upholding the (stupid in this case) law  FlyingsCool | 08/12/09
Clearly, the current system is unsustainable...  t.anthony.ash@... | 08/12/09
Please! Stick to the topic!  Jxn | 08/14/09
Rediculous  NStalnecker | 08/12/09
As if MSFT's 10,000th patent, does not mean anything.  AdventTech67 | 08/12/09
Main difference  Yax_to_the_Max | 08/12/09
When it rains, it's whet.  CounterEthicsCommissioner-23034636492738337469105860790963 | 08/12/09
Point Being  Playos | 08/12/09
Open Office / XHtml doesn't violate this patent  shannah78 | 08/12/09
The problem is not i4i or  Jxn | 08/14/09
And at the end-user's expence  kaninelupus | 08/13/09
Your description of Microsoft is a bit na?ve  Jxn | 08/14/09
counter productive  lethalronin27 | 08/12/09
Have to agree  kaninelupus | 08/12/09
I'm sorry that MS got gored with their own sword ....  kd5auq | 08/12/09
don't agree  deepee912 | 08/12/09
Oh how sweet!  SkaldedKat | 08/12/09
Altruistic?  markbn | 08/12/09
Re; MS is getting the patent to protect itself, not stop others . .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Oh, like Microsoft wanted to stop  Jxn | 08/14/09
You do realize...  wolf_z | 08/12/09
When it comes to Microsoft...  rapson | 08/12/09
Re; "throwing the baby out with the bath water".  hkommedal | 08/12/09
I'm against this patent. But when you say software patents only patent....  xuniL_z | 08/12/09
Let me be more precise  wolf_z | 08/12/09
Negative ghost rider.  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Software IS NOT hardware, it has no physical properties  Ole Man | 08/12/09
You are confusing the patent with the reduction to practice  Patronus | 08/12/09
If you hold a patent on anything NOT physical  Ole Man | 08/12/09
I tried making that argument once...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
You are right about what patents, but  Jxn | 08/14/09
Those ones and zereos repersent  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Re; Those ones and zereos repersent actual electrical pulses.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Re; impossible for judges, lawyers, politicians, lobbyists, and software ..  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Seems from the looks of this...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
@Shadow. I should have been more precise.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
No physical properties?  thone.hall@... | 08/12/09
Re; No physical properties?  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Easy  Jxn | 08/14/09
It's simple  wolf_z | 08/12/09
Everything is Math  Playos | 08/12/09
Re; writing a word document is moving values from one spot to another . .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
@hkomm  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
@Shadow. Arranging things into a pattern is an old idea.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
I stand by my original post, and agree with Shadow...  xuniL_z | 08/13/09
Sigh. Epic fail! You and xuniL_z do not understand...  Jxn | 08/14/09
You are not getting this  Jxn | 08/14/09
What?  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
I was explaining this exact concept...  PollyProteus | 08/12/09
I give you +10 on this  Jxn | 08/14/09
I assume you aren't from the US...  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
Patents on software are dumb  SpikeyMike | 08/12/09
Wrong. ODF IS XML  wackoae | 08/12/09
.  SpikeyMike | 08/12/09
But...  fcdenton666 | 08/12/09
I'm reading the patent  Michael Kelly | 08/12/09
Seems to me from reading this patent abstract...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
The Office file format is a number of "files"  Patronus | 08/12/09
You are opening a can of worms  markbn | 08/12/09
OXML  KTLA | 08/12/09
None of you are lawyers.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/12/09
They are entitled to their opinion though. (nt)  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
No, but most of us...  edwards.wb | 08/12/09
And this is why Algorith (Software) patents  Jxn | 08/14/09
Re; (Software) patents must be gone . . .  hkommedal | 08/14/09
A good thing?  drobinow | 08/12/09
They deserve it after OOXML  sdunn2000@... | 08/12/09
But still  Jxn | 08/14/09
Microsoft's later patent is irrelevant  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/12/09
Ever hear of a blocking patent?  Patronus | 08/12/09
Do we know...  wolf_z | 08/12/09
Microsoft's patent app  Larry Dignan ZDNet Moderator | 08/12/09
Wait a minute!  wolf_z | 08/12/09
i4i patent pre-dates XML  prof123 | 08/12/09
Consider Microsoft likes to drag stuff out for years...  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/12/09
So if they invented XML...doesn't that mean everyone  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
First come first served ...  TiggerTom | 08/12/09
Re; everyone that uses XML is in voilation. . . No.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
What?  ShadowGIATL | 08/13/09
Reply to ShadowGIATL  Jxn | 08/14/09
@Jxn  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
If MS was awarded the patent recently, ...  mwagner@... | 08/14/09
Yes we know  odcchaz | 08/12/09
I'm gonna blame  odcchaz | 08/12/09
Yes, Yes, Yes  ManoaHI | 08/12/09
Karma is a B*tch...  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Loverock Davidson | 08/12/09
Oh God forbid your buddy Balmer  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
But its not going to affect just Ballmer and Microsoft  Loverock Davidson | 08/12/09
Purely speculation at this point...  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
Acording to the abstract of the patent...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Interesting, next they may go after Google and Adobe...nt  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
Pretty much leaves them open...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Re; God forbid your buddy Balmer should have to pay royalties. .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
You do realise....  kaninelupus | 08/13/09
The impact is insignifigant.  B.O.F.H. | 08/12/09
Until they go after others  Loverock Davidson | 08/12/09
Oh lets see other companies would then  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
That is how the Patent system works!  B.O.F.H. | 08/12/09
Never! I could care less if COMPUTERS were ruled illegal.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/12/09
That is nice...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
One less nut to worry about that's for sure.nt  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
Re; Thanks for your input.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
I have...  ShadowGIATL | 08/13/09
Man your funny...then don't read the blogs and  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
Please.  Patronus | 08/12/09
RE; Without Microsoft there would not have been the personal computer . . .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
non-sense  springerj | 09/01/09
So basically all your comments are meaningless  baileysc | 08/12/09
Re; We need to stand behind Microsoft on this one.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
no non nyet never  Quebec-french | 08/12/09
Boy ... you don't get it do you - LOL nt  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
oh hey you are getting ... bravo  Quebec-french | 08/12/09
Your...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
No lesson will be learned  Patronus | 08/12/09
you see that the problem  Quebec-french | 08/12/09
No thanks  Patronus | 08/12/09
Oh yea...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
@Patronus  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
@shadow...: AMEN and Thank you!!! which will  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
Re; Goverment and law maker need to find a way to impose judgement . .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Re; We need to stand behind Microsoft on this one.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Are you giving up, LD? It seems so.  CounterEthicsCommissioner-23034636492738337469105860790963 | 08/12/09
What all you that are disagreeing with Loverock ...  Viva la crank dodo | 08/12/09
Lol - agree  CounterEthicsCommissioner-23034636492738337469105860790963 | 08/12/09
I can't agree with your statements  Viva la crank dodo | 08/12/09
Re; anyone who uses xml. Even the Microsoft haters . .  hkommedal | 08/12/09
What about Open Office.... They are technically violating too  croberts | 08/12/09
Why should MS ultimately win this?  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
You clueless twit  croberts | 08/12/09
How does patent infringment kill  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
Let me show you the problem for Open Office  wolf_z | 08/12/09
New info  xXSpeedzXx | 08/12/09
I don't know open source but i4i could grant 'free software'  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/12/09
You can't do that.  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
You just gave the case to MS...oops. You just  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
@Shadow... by not going after other interests aren't they  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/12/09
@socialism=nowhere  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Re; Otherwise XML is dead for document storage.  hkommedal | 08/12/09
I have questions in to McKool Smith about this  Larry Dignan ZDNet Moderator | 08/12/09
got my answer  Larry Dignan ZDNet Moderator | 08/12/09
Agree completely with your interpretation  wez@... | 12/23/09
I'm not a huge Microsoft fan...  sicoir | 08/12/09
i4i Patent is original  prof123 | 08/12/09
So if there is a 17 year limit  Michael Kelly | 08/12/09
I think this was extended to 25 years based on Microsoft's lobby effort.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/12/09
Got a link to that?  Michael Kelly | 08/12/09
Thought patent was in 1998  baileysc | 08/12/09
EDI has embedded delimiters  Fred Fredrickson | 08/12/09
p.s. USPTO - please apply those same rules to Microsoft. (NT)  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  lethalronin27 | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  fredblotnic | 08/12/09
I agree with you...  SpikeyMike | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  morghanphoenix | 08/12/09
Re; . normally Microsoft suing people for stupid overly generic patents?  hkommedal | 08/12/09
Why did a Canadian company sue a Washington company in Texas???  James T. Kirk | 08/12/09
Because of theTexas judges.  MyMac | 08/12/09
Microsoft patent should be toss out  Randalllind | 08/12/09
A lot of companies act the same way  Boot_Agnostic | 08/12/09
They don't do as much suing as others.  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Money grabs and a company about to be bought up  Boot_Agnostic | 08/12/09
i4i Eye for Eye, Tooth for Tooth.  AdventTech67 | 08/12/09
This patent is not about using XML with Wordprocessing Documents  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Hate to burst your bubble...  wolf_z | 08/12/09
XSD is a different thing  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Disturbing...  thoiness | 08/12/09
Patent only deals with storage  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Storage and differences.  CobraA1 | 08/12/09
XSD isn't that different  baileysc | 08/12/09
Eh...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
XML Schema and CSS are different  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Actually, XML Shemas can.  CobraA1 | 08/12/09
Thank you...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Case should be nullified.  Dr_Zinj | 08/12/09
Why ohh why.. do we allow software patents?  Been_Done_Before | 08/12/09
Um...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Software patents != copyright  n0n3 | 08/12/09
You have never worked in SW dev  Stuka | 08/12/09
Yea...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
The CD/DVD is not the idea...  SpikeyMike | 08/12/09
You missed the point..  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
Software IS Not physical  Ole Man | 08/12/09
Um... The Onion as a news source?  PollyProteus | 08/12/09
Sarcasm?  SpikeyMike | 08/12/09
And now that you spent all that time arguing that...  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
RE: Patent only deals with storage  thoiness | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Timpraetor | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  thoiness | 08/12/09
We get it .. you don't like software patents  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Fix the patent system  Dan the Digital Dog | 08/12/09
Fixing the patent system.  thoiness | 08/12/09
I'll agree with that...! (nt)  el1jones | 08/12/09
Master Joe Says...  MasterJoe | 08/12/09
The real issue with I4I and Microsoft  thoiness | 08/12/09
Again.. patent is not for XML  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Re  thoiness | 08/12/09
Re: XML/Open Office/ODF are not affected by this patent  shannah78 | 08/12/09
Partially Correct  thoiness | 08/12/09
i4i Patent is not on XML itself  amywohl | 08/12/09
Master Joe Says...Again  MasterJoe | 08/12/09
i4i, XML and Microsoft  aduana@... | 08/12/09
Perhaps they are going under ...  DarekD | 08/12/09
Broken system...  cosuna | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Patronus | 08/12/09
Sorry patty but do you really think that cloud will be safe  Quebec-french | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  rnlightle | 08/12/09
your right but  Quebec-french | 08/12/09
It is proportional.  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
I think M$ is getting hosed but....  adams484@... | 08/12/09
It is still wrong.  hkommedal | 08/13/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Joe Avelar | 08/12/09
Wrong system...  thoiness | 08/12/09
How can anyone patent anything related to XML?  mheartwood | 08/12/09
Re: How can anyone patent anything related to XML  shannah78 | 08/12/09
-  DarekD | 08/12/09
Read the patent.  ShadowGIATL | 08/12/09
however ...  DandyD | 08/14/09
Well...  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
Give me a break  lschw1 | 08/12/09
So much for interoperability and opennes  markbn | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  wizardgdog@... | 08/12/09
The patent IS invalid  DarekD | 08/12/09
CSS Patents valid  bklooste | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  CraiGrrr | 08/12/09
Transaction tracking\dynamic backout/index files  mswift@... | 08/12/09
Why are Patents in other countries ok  bklooste | 08/12/09
Re; Why are Patents in other countries ok  hkommedal | 08/13/09
like VTD-XML  nluv4hs | 08/12/09
just a typo dont get too excited  Quebec-french | 08/12/09
what is eye for eye... oops.. i4i's business model?  guptasameer@... | 08/12/09
I'm an Examiner; let me try and clear some of this up  JustNExaminer | 08/12/09
A few more things  JustNExaminer | 08/12/09
You're missing the point  inmarket | 08/13/09
Re: You're missing the point  JustNExaminer | 08/13/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Tanset | 08/12/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  pixolut | 08/13/09
best way for a small company to fight the recession happy  b3rtr0 | 08/13/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Tim Acheson | 08/13/09
Whoa! Let's get a grip on reality!  Cywiro | 08/13/09
Patent vague enough to extend BEYOND XML - like to CSS  kaninelupus | 08/14/09
CSS/HTML predates this patent ...  DandyD | 08/14/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  petit@... | 08/13/09
Microsoft obtained a patent for XML  jfalknor | 08/14/09
So much for open standards  roystonlodge | 08/14/09
And this will clear up the discussion in the OSS  Jxn | 08/14/09
Stop down talking my country.  ShadowGIATL | 08/14/09
Disagree with some of your points  wez@... | 12/23/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  rgerald@... | 08/14/09
Obvious Improvement: MS will win appeal  gamc | 08/14/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  DandyD | 08/14/09
additionally ...  DandyD | 08/14/09
MS doesn't sell software, ayway  3dguru | 08/14/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Jeff Hayes | 08/15/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  gjampol@... | 08/15/09
Gates should pay vast damages not be thanked  zdnet@... | 08/16/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  KnowerOfThings | 08/19/09
Software patents: broad, stifling and unfair  exolon | 08/20/09
The unseen problems of software and algorithm patents  ianATonlineloop.NOcom | 08/24/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  jwseybold | 09/04/09
US patent system is a joke!  privacy matters | 09/11/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  Stovies | 09/16/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  chris@... | 12/23/09
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  davidjensen | 01/05/10
Irony....  psyclist | 01/05/10
Just another demonstration  tracy anne | 01/05/10
There's nothing wrong with software patents...  GrizzledGeezer | 01/06/10
This "patent" is neither. Most patents are invalid.  tracy anne | 01/07/10
The patent is so generic it's pathetic.  GrizzledGeezer | 01/06/10
XML vs the i4i patent  william_tr | 01/07/10
The patent ~= XSLT and CSS  cryptikonline | 01/11/10
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  henrystahle@... | 01/11/10
Patents = EVIL !  Gradius2 | 01/11/10
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  ttocsmij | 01/25/10
RE: Examine the patent that made selling Microsoft Word a crime  J dev dev | 02/05/10

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