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Differentiate between ownership and ownership of copyright

---Unfortunately for you, you simply misunderstand the law. It's not an "arbitrary distinction", it's a legal one.---

Sorry, no. You're claiming that I don't own anything to which I don't also hold the copyright. And that's flat out wrong. There's a difference between the actual object, and the rights to reproduce and distribute that object.

---Man, you can't read either huh? I explicitly stated that this falls under "personal use" and in some circumstances is exempt. But not ALL circumstances. You can't make a backup and give it to your Aunt Sally for "safekeeping" for example. It's a gray area that has no firm rulings---

What part of " criticism,
comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and
parodies" is considered "personal use". I can sell parodies, and charge fees for my news reporting, my teaching, my research, etc. And while there are no firm rulings on backup copies (as I noted in my post, there is legal precedent for format shifting under the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player
decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079,
9th Circ. 1999.)

---Yes, and this is covered under very limited circumstances. Education, critical, satirical, and the like.---

So then you were wrong when you claimed, "You aren't even allowed to reproduce it!" Glad to see you admit your error there.

---Yes, but there are restrictions. Notice that TiVo used to offer a "commercial skip" feature. They were found to be inviolation of copyright laws and thus were forced to remove this feature. You will see that no DVR has any "commercial skipping" feature, only things that do "time shift".---

Wow, talk about misinformed.

First off, let's state that yes, there are restrictions on what you can do with the objects you own (just as you are restricted from removing the catalytic converter from your car).

There is no court case the likes of which you are claiming. You are completely off base. I think you may be misremembering the case against SonicBlue for their ReplayTV device that was similar to TiVo but allowed you to skip commercials. They were sued by several content companies, claiming viewers were "thieves" if they watched tv but didn't watch the commercials. Sadly, this case never went to trial, as the legal fees bankrupted SonicBlue (which was probably the strategy all along, as it was a case the content companies were clearly going to lose). More on this case here:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20020509_sprigman.html

and here:
http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/Newmark_v_Turner/20030321_eff_pr.php

---Of course, I didn't suggest that. Again, as I stated, it's allowed under "personal use". You really should learn how to read---

You did call it a "gray area" to raise doubt, where there is in fact, very little doubt.

---Because everything ads say are always 100% factual. Just like when Blockbuster says "No Late Fees" but actually adds "ownership charges" if you keep the rental for too long. You should always trust the nice ad companies. They are your friend.---

Note that Blockbuster is now being sued for this claim:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36767-2005Feb18.html

So you're saying we can now sue every dvd manufacturer for their misleading claims as well? Sweet.

---Please, learn the law, then argue.---

Pot, kettle, black. Don't make up imaginary court cases and actually read the laws you're quoting to see what they say. Come back anytime for further education.

Posted by: tic swayback   Posted on: 01/05/06 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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