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As much as I hate EULAs and dislike MS tactics,
you’re not quite correct on this. “Innocent unless proven guilty” only applies in criminal court cases, not contract law (which EULAs would fall under) nor general day-to-day life, neither business nor personal.

The walk-through RFID scanners at store exits would also violate that principle, and so would airport security systems, and even the locks on your car and house doors. After all, until that shady-looking person walking through your neighborhood is proven to be guilty of car theft or home burglary, you must presume him to be innocent, right? Don’t lock your doors until then.

And Michael Jackson was never proven guilty, so you should presume him innocent and have no problem letting your young sons sleep over with him unsupervised, right? Same logic.

WGA is analogous to a door lock or RFID scanner, verifying compliance. Yes, it’s faulty, but this is not a problem with the concept, and it does not inherently violate “innocent unless proven guilty” in and of itself.

Now, if it inflicted punishment (which in a very strict sense it does by denying updates, but by that logic a door lock denies access and that could just as easily be considered punishment), then it would violate the principle that punishment is to be meted out only by judicial authority after guilt (or liability, in the case of civil cases) has been established.

What the not-so-honorable Senator Orrin Hatch [R - RIAA / MPAA / BMI / BSA / ADAPSO] has proposed would indeed violate that principle mightily. It would be no different than installing physically harmful if not lethal booby traps in your home, which has already been declared illegal in nearly every American jurisdiction.

EULAs, on the other hand, do violate the most fundamental principle of contract law, in that a contract is supposed to be the result of give-and-take between two legal parties, each contributing equally to the final contract that becomes acceptable to both parties. Only then is the contract signed, and only then does it become enforceable.

The very existence of EULAs even as a concept flatly contradicts that most basic principle of contract law.
Posted by: Joel R   Posted on: 11/01/06 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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Sounds like WGA is doing its job  NonZealot | 10/30/06
Well...  zkiwi | 10/30/06
Not just Stacker.  UserLand | 10/31/06
Like I've been saying all along.....  Jack-Booted EULA | 10/31/06
WGA is a controversion of our legal system.  techboy_z | 10/31/06
As much as I hate EULAs and dislike MS tactics,  Joel R | 11/01/06
actually, you'd be surprised  shryko | 11/01/06
Infringement on privacy  willem1933@... | 11/02/06
Theories, like opinions, vary.  Dr. John | 11/02/06
With China's piracy rate, wouldn't they be targeted?  HypnoToad | 10/30/06
I doubt they want to  Suicida| | 10/30/06
Where have you been?  lenohere | 10/31/06
Not on my computers!!!  Hans Schmidt | 11/02/06
Too late...  Linux User 147560 | 10/31/06
RedFlag Linux has been around for a while  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Image counts (even for MS!)  multanihl | 10/31/06
Sorry, that's "company's seriousness"  multanihl | 10/31/06
China Piracy  net-com | 10/31/06
And thier market share drops.  Suicida| | 10/30/06
That's hilarious.  A_Pickle | 10/31/06
Marketshare...  Rick_K | 10/31/06
Once again, Apple to the rescue!!  NonZealot | 10/31/06
Non-zealot zealotry  frgough | 10/31/06
Is there an Apple manual somewhere?  NonZealot | 10/31/06
Microsoft targets auctioneers of pirated software  Intellihence | 10/31/06
pirated Software  benf_z | 11/01/06
Microsoft targets auctioneers of pirated software  Loverock Davidson | 10/31/06
Pirates protecting their booty  tfahs_orcim | 10/31/06
Regardless of whether you like Microsoft or not  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Re: ridiculous prices  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Re: ridiculous prices  Intellihence | 10/31/06
Piracy and prices...  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
And how many people  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Re: how many people  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
That still doesn't answer my question  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Not quite  maldain | 10/31/06
MS pricing and use  Edvbq1 | 11/01/06
There's only one thing for crybabies to do...  wfuller | 11/01/06
What is your problem?  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Price and money spent on piracy  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Thats laughable  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Re: laughable  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Ahhh BUT  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
$400 computer?  labarker | 11/01/06
here here!  wfuller | 11/01/06
It's "hear" , "hear"  the_seb | 11/02/06
Perhaps  Jack-Booted EULA | 10/31/06
But that's not hard  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Re:  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
get over yourself  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Piracy & the public  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
And he still fails to see the point  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Well  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Actually  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Totally misunderstood...  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Now I get it  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Surprise  Linux User 1 | 10/31/06
Looks, Talks, and Acts Like One  Ole Man | 11/01/06
Shel, you're too funny.  techboy_z | 10/31/06
Ridiculous prices...  Raymond Danner | 10/31/06
Above the curve??  wfuller | 11/01/06
I don't like the price, but  labarker | 11/01/06
Except...  Dr. John | 11/02/06
Oh yeah?  Loverock Davidson | 10/31/06
What are you dressing up as ?  Intellihence | 10/31/06
I don't see why he shouldn't  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
is that a witch  Patrick Jones | 10/31/06
LOL  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
achoo  Loverock Davidson | 10/31/06
ROTFLMFAO  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Heck no!  Patrick Jones | 11/01/06
(NT) Suicide bomber, lofl :o)  Jack-Booted EULA | 10/31/06
Halloween Costume  aardvark77 | 11/01/06
WHy thankyou Lovey  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Anytime  Loverock Davidson | 10/31/06
or the crow  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Crow is feasible  Loverock Davidson | 10/31/06
Pricing???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/31/06
And another thing  kodakmak | 11/02/06
Ummm, Such As ...  Cardhu | 11/02/06
Piracy....  Kobashrer | 10/31/06
If you are going to quote me then you might  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Sorry, you are simply wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/31/06
Jack Sparrow to No_ax ....  Reverend MacFellow | 10/31/06
No Ax to Jack Off...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/31/06
No I'm not  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
Show me...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/31/06
That's a matter of opinion Axey  Shelendrea | 10/31/06
And your opinion seems to be that they are about the same.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/31/06
Lower prices != Less Stealling  FatherJ | 11/02/06
Microsoft Already Has A Huge Advantage  Cardhu | 11/02/06
Well..  Patrick Jones | 11/01/06
Apple NOT more expensive.  Joel R | 11/01/06
Negative.  FatherJ | 11/02/06
Try again  kodakmak | 11/02/06
That Depends On The Value You Place  Cardhu | 11/02/06
Well???  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/31/06
Not At All  Cardhu | 11/02/06
Fully agree  Fred Fredrickson | 11/01/06
Good for MS!  George Mitchell | 10/31/06
Time to whip up the DVD burner  jpump@... | 11/01/06
It's a product  Psyjack | 11/01/06
Yes the price will not go down  jlzimm | 11/01/06
Bingo!  FatherJ | 11/02/06
The never ending battle...  nemesis_bass | 11/01/06
The Never Ending Battle  timmygr12 | 11/01/06
PS  rocketollie | 11/01/06
How do they identify the false positives?  hoiatl | 11/01/06
False positives?  JRLBell | 11/02/06
Well, That;'s Because You've Been Lucky  Cardhu | 11/02/06
How do they identify the false positives?  hoiatl | 11/01/06
How do they identify the false positives?  hoiatl | 11/01/06
Well, they might  Cardhu | 11/03/06
Good luck with Poland  FredOneSaid | 11/01/06
Piracy  res03y2y@... | 11/01/06
Piracy  timmygr12 | 11/01/06
Microsoft Targets Online Auction Pirating  cgordering | 11/02/06
Microsoft  tbanks204 | 11/02/06
People still shoplift at Walmart  FatherJ | 11/02/06
Stop piracy with affordable software  jackofalltradesmasterofnone | 11/03/06
Online Auctions  aviatioinga | 11/11/06

What do you think?

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