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How do you do it?
I'm all for security that doesn't involve the user. Now the question is will the user allow that to happen. For me to implement security with out interfering with the user work requires me to do some very draconian security tactics compared to what they have today.

Users like freedom and with freedom comes responisblities for thier own safety on the network and the safety of others. If users are not up to the task then we can always remove all thier freedom on the network.
Posted by: voska   Posted on: 10/16/06 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use
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Please tell me I didn't just read that  Shelendrea | 10/12/06
Perhaps but is it practical to expect or even ask for?  Laff | 10/12/06
Of course it's practical...  jasonp@... | 10/12/06
Still not sure here.....  Laff | 10/12/06
Mailman...  sfuse | 10/12/06
Actually, "mailman" is a very insecure career  orangemike | 10/12/06
Train everybody, then layoff IT  MacGeek2121 | 10/12/06
Here's the reality:  John Zern | 10/12/06
times have changed  voska | 10/16/06
Consequences? Ha! Rulebreakers can't be fired; they're management!  orangemike | 10/12/06
Boy that's the truth.  maldain | 10/12/06
Not entirely...  Sysop1984 | 10/16/06
And Management will often say something like don't talk to the people about  slim-01 | 10/13/06
Umm ... fire someone for an inappropriate mouse click? Get serious!  Flagg_z | 10/12/06
Great Idea For Downsizing, Thanks!!!  Media-Ted@... | 10/12/06
How do you do it?  voska | 10/16/06
Uh.. Right..  Wolfie2K3 | 10/13/06
An Interesting Theory  kodakmak | 10/31/06
Make a horse drink - YOU CAN ! -NT  raycote | 10/12/06
NO? But  Media-Ted@... | 10/12/06
Great security exists in great OS  Mikael_z | 10/12/06
Even though I agree with you...  orangemike | 10/12/06
A majority of them just use a word-processor...  Mikael_z | 10/12/06
And there are a good number of macro-viruses in wordprocessors  nix_hed | 10/12/06
So please explain to me...  toadlife | 10/12/06
BULL!  Wolfie2K3 | 10/13/06
But summing up the security problems....  Mikael_z | 10/14/06
Phishing also works via telephone and mail  voska | 10/16/06
OK, You didn't read that...  Media-Ted@... | 10/12/06
You read it and he's right.  Anton Philidor | 10/12/06
Exactly, the user shouldn't be forced to do the OS's job  Mikael_z | 10/12/06
Not just the operating system.  Anton Philidor | 10/12/06
I dont know about the workplace but...  Cayble | 10/12/06
A little knowledge...  Anton Philidor | 10/12/06
I totally agree and thats why...  Cayble | 10/12/06
Not IT, the OS, or mail server's job  Dr_Zinj | 10/13/06
The perimeter can be overrun.  Anton Philidor | 10/13/06
SMB tactics  hammaren@... | 10/13/06
Definition of a Microsoft user :  I'm Ye, the MS SHILL . | 10/12/06
Logical Fallacy  BFD | 10/12/06
No, there is a much better deffinition.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/12/06
OS is irrelevant  Zeppo9191 | 10/12/06
SUCKERS keep bashing MS...  fewiii | 10/12/06
Totally missing the point  axarce@... | 10/12/06
Missing you...  Linux User 1 | 10/12/06
Good comeback  axarce@... | 10/12/06
Very unfair comment  Cayble | 10/12/06
Right On.  savatar | 10/15/06
Whatever  westks | 10/15/06
Security expert: Luser education is pointless... DUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHH!  Mr. Roboto | 10/12/06
Just like personal security, users need to pay attention...  Been_Done_Before | 10/12/06
Where he really loses it is...  slopoke | 10/12/06
What ever happened to accountability?  thecoop@... | 10/12/06
Schools only teach 3 R's  Mr_Dave | 10/12/06
Let's hear it for personal responsibility!  sbarman | 10/12/06
the biggest phish: IT smugness  dmennie | 10/12/06
Get with it!  sbarman | 10/12/06
Passwords  numbers987654321 | 10/12/06
IT responsible for bad passwords.  colinmeister | 10/13/06
Changing passwords is good  voska | 10/16/06
What is in it for me?  Marco Parillo | 10/12/06
Don't Care?  optimist134 | 10/12/06
User education  ftucker@... | 10/12/06
Understand the rules...  sbarman | 10/12/06
Not their job  reeder | 10/12/06
Can you READ?  optimist134 | 10/13/06
Interesting...  jskline0@... | 10/12/06
Forget about teaching computer users how to be safe online.  donegan@... | 10/12/06
The sad part is, corporations deplore support. They want 'self-sufficiency'  HypnoToad | 10/13/06
Singing Pigs  Queue | 10/12/06
Singing Pigs  elmerpaul | 10/12/06
Or Lousy Teacher Perhaps?  crayolakidd | 10/12/06
Don't be absurd  lost2ny | 10/12/06
I can not beleave my eys.  krismartin56 | 10/12/06
Beleave  professordnm | 10/12/06
It's like teaching,,,  No_Ax_to_Grind | 10/12/06
And what's wrong with that?  John L. Ries | 10/12/06
So you're saying "If it is broke, don't fix it?"  sbarman | 10/12/06
it's like teaching  jlzimm | 10/12/06
I dont think that was the point  Speeddymon | 10/12/06
Education is never pointless  John L. Ries | 10/12/06
Pointless, until something of value is lost forever.  999ad@... | 10/12/06
Too many ASSumptions  ometecuhtli2001 | 10/12/06
Paternalistic attitude  KarenMcP | 10/12/06
User Education  gsquared | 10/12/06
everyone is right...in some points  axxyutza | 10/12/06
User's Don't Care Because They Aren't Accountable  dacap06@... | 10/12/06
Lusers aren't held accountable because too many of them are management!  orangemike | 10/12/06
Users do care when .....  Dr.C | 10/12/06
I wish I could agree, but . . .  999ad@... | 10/12/06
Can't take away access for some jobs  LuckyCharm | 10/12/06
And even though the  ebrke | 10/13/06
I totally agree (110%)  Carion | 10/12/06
You have several other options open to you...  Linux User 147560 | 10/13/06
User Education  benf_z | 10/12/06
user education  al999 | 10/12/06
Can't rely on Lusers - it really is up to us  mweight@... | 10/12/06
Cant rely on Lusers  benf_z | 10/12/06
There seem to be no network admins worth the air they breath.  Bruizer | 10/13/06
One problem is competent admins arent being hired  Airwolph | 10/14/06
Should require a license to drive a computer  dl@... | 10/12/06
Cntrl+What?  optimist134 | 10/13/06
HOW you teach them can turn them ON or OFF  roxanne_z | 11/08/06
User education is pointless.  GeoPrime | 10/12/06
The first goal is making security relevant  dsusysmgr | 10/12/06
Locks and Keys  mlibrescu4 | 10/12/06
Not True.  GeoPrime | 10/12/06
Just how many of you manage this problem???  pberry26@... | 10/12/06
Isn't it everyone's responsibility?  axarce@... | 10/12/06
some things never change  compmoms@... | 10/12/06
I disagree  kaitech | 10/12/06
Zombies are real  mikiec@... | 10/12/06
Honestly....  Sysop1984 | 10/12/06
Education is pointless? No!  3D0G | 10/12/06
And people should leave their personal security to Police experts . . .  roadbiker | 10/12/06
I'm sure this doesn't happen at no axe's or Mike Cox's Company  DarthRidiculous | 10/12/06
WHat hardware does Cox, LD, and no axe's company use  Airwolph | 10/14/06
I'll pay that!  crayolakidd | 10/12/06
Firefox and plugins  D-cat | 10/14/06
Cost Attribution would work wonders  Njal | 10/12/06
Security is of the utmost importance!  erniem1970@... | 10/12/06
Keep plugging  tech-nut@... | 10/12/06
"The Life Cycle of Software"  interested_amateur@... | 10/12/06
Sounds very M$ If you ask me...  Sysop1984 | 10/12/06
Scary concepts here  crayolakidd | 10/12/06
I actually agree...  D-cat | 10/15/06
There's probably other factors this "expert" has overlooked...  Mr. Roboto | 10/12/06
Important is awareness  subhasisbera@... | 10/12/06
The Larger Issue Here  multanihl | 10/12/06
So what  Someguy2 | 10/12/06
Aside from the main article...  axarce@... | 10/13/06
True  Someguy2 | 10/13/06
Defaulting to Root doesn't help the matter....  Sysop1984 | 10/12/06
A Double-Edged Sword  multanihl | 10/13/06
Automating your position away.  D-cat | 10/14/06
There is no need for Admin access  voska | 10/16/06
There is a real geek attitude to security on these boards  mrjonno | 10/12/06
Unique Issues to IT Support  multanihl | 10/13/06
I agree the customer is a nightmare  mrjonno | 10/13/06
I agree the customer is a nightmare  mrjonno | 10/13/06
ATM PIN  axarce@... | 10/13/06
ATM cards are compromised often  voska | 10/16/06
I don't agree  voska | 10/16/06
Culture Change Required  SikosisZDNet | 10/13/06
User-Proof Passwords?  Paul Barrett | 10/13/06
Lets hear it for learning how to drive a computer  cchamb2 | 10/13/06
Lets hear it for learning how to drive a computer  cchamb2 | 10/13/06
Computers should be Toasters  jpr75_z | 10/13/06
Toaster security  hines1957@... | 10/13/06
Dumbest idea ever  hines1957@... | 10/13/06
Automatic education is the answer and it is available  yoramnis | 10/13/06
If we can teach Koko to sign....  ejhonda | 10/13/06
User education is NOT pointless  jimmy.cury@... | 10/13/06
if your software can't survive a moron.....  case42tlc | 10/13/06
"It's impossibile to make anything foolproof...  D-cat | 10/14/06
Intermed. n advanced user - shut up  JonathanSeer | 10/13/06
These guys are MORONS  Wolfie2K3 | 10/13/06
I do care! as do my friends. Your loosing it! Must be the title?  curlymon@... | 10/13/06
Evolution in Action  dlmeyer@... | 10/13/06
Idiots  MyChangedLife777 | 10/13/06
Didn't read everything, but here's another good analogy  axarce@... | 10/13/06
Bull.  Ginevra | 10/13/06
100% correct  hines1957@... | 10/13/06
Um, sorry, but no.  Ginevra | 10/13/06
A long-term, but also temporary situation  multanihl | 10/13/06
What Planet Is This Guy From?  sevenof9fl | 10/14/06
Outsourcing - you get what you pay for.  D-cat | 10/14/06
Education may be expensive, but stupidity will bankrupt you.  osreinstall | 10/14/06
Security is an IT job?  DonG43 | 10/15/06
Yes.  Anton Philidor | 10/15/06
Enlighten me please.  D-cat | 10/15/06
Using your car analogy  Anton Philidor | 10/15/06
Security is not an IT job  voska | 10/16/06
Transparency  savatar | 10/16/06
Windows needs /var/log/messages (NT)  savatar | 10/16/06

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