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Freedom vs. Security
Hi, OButterball.

You said:

"Freedom is MUCH more important than safety, because without freedom we are nothing more than zoo animals safely ensconced in our cages."

You could easily turn that argument around: Without safety, we'd all be dead anyway, and what kind of freedom is that?

The reason I was being very literal about Franklin's quote was that it rejects absolutism. It recognizes that *some* limitations on freedom are necessary for human beings to live in societies without rampant raping, murdering and pillaging. Recognizing this, it's foolish *not* to trade some freedom for safety. The question becomes, *how much* freedom do we trade in order to live safely?

As an example: We submit ourselves to searches of our persons and bags when we get on a plane. This is an invasion of our personal space and privacy. (A right to privacy isn't actually *in* the Constitution, but it's widely recognized as a Good Thing, and therefore has legal precedent in the U.S. The Constitution of the E.U., by contrast, has expicitly written in a right to privacy, if it ever gets ratified.) We submit to searches when we get on planes because we recognize, as a society, that it's better to have our privacy impinged upon when we get on a plane than to risk letting some nutjob on the plane with explosives or Bowie knives or other weapons. It's a trade-off.

Similarly, when you sign up for an ISP account, you do so with the understanding that you're accessing a computer network, and that that network is maintained and monitored.

I'm ambivalent about the need for such monitoring to catch child pornography. I think a lot of it could be nipped in the bud with more rigorous review of Internet chat rooms and newsgroups. But there never is, never was, and never will be anonymity on the Internet, unless and until the basic architecture is changed to no longer require a unique identifier to track packets.
Posted by: bhartman36   Posted on: 06/16/05 You are currently: a Guest | Members login | Terms of Use

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And here is where I cry rights violation  nucrash | 06/16/05
I think it has Homeland Security  ebrke | 06/16/05
Ben Franklin Quote  bhartman36 | 06/16/05
REread that again...  Joe Blow_z | 06/16/05
Material  bhartman36 | 06/16/05
Not necessarily legal  deadgoat | 06/18/05
Good Point  bhartman36 | 06/18/05
Actually, Ben said this many times, in many different ways.  Judas I. | 06/16/05
Freedom vs. Security  bhartman36 | 06/16/05
Good points, and I agree with you ...  Judas I. | 06/16/05
Arbitrary or Despotic Control  bhartman36 | 06/17/05
Once again, I agree with you, but ...  Judas I. | 06/17/05
Individualism and Freedom  heeltap26 | 06/23/05
Benjamin Franklin  Joe Blow_z | 06/16/05
The quote works anyway  Protector | 06/16/05
Is there a liberty that's not essential?  bhartman36 | 06/16/05
start thinking  Protector | 06/17/05
Freedom with Responsibility  osreinstall | 06/17/05
Essential Freedoms  bhartman36 | 06/17/05
if the terrorist get us to give up our freedoms  JasonL31 | 06/18/05
How the Terrorists Win  bhartman36 | 06/18/05
I don't want to pay for this  Protector | 06/16/05
GW Bush's ISP Log  itanalyst | 06/16/05
good stuff  r7di697 | 06/17/05
FOor my good please set cameras at my home...  FirstNLastN | 06/16/05
if you don't know what you're doing....  pesky_z | 06/16/05
Get a warrant  Spats30 | 06/16/05
they want to bypass warrants  JasonL31 | 06/18/05
Your ISP as a Net watchdog - It's 1984 d?j? vu.  csagnard | 06/16/05
I guess IBM wasn't the only thing sold to China  BitTwiddler | 06/16/05
Intriguing reading for you................  btljooz | 06/16/05
No it doesn't  osreinstall | 06/16/05
Jeez  r7di697 | 06/17/05
ISP record retention  TeddyC_z | 06/17/05
This is a pathetic attempt to be a big brother  Been_Done_Before | 06/17/05
Proxy servers, etc.  bhartman36 | 06/17/05
VPN would take off  JasonL31 | 06/18/05
Re: Once again, I agree with you, but (from OButterball)  bhartman36 | 06/17/05
'Undernets' will spring up everywhere...  Colonel_Panic | 06/17/05
exactly - this would not effect terrorist  JasonL31 | 06/18/05
Too many lawyers surf porn, this SCREAMS civil rights...  Colonel_Panic | 06/17/05
if the terrorist get us to give up our freedom  JasonL31 | 06/18/05
wrong terrorist will use old fasion bbs style comunication  JasonL31 | 06/18/05

What do you think?

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